Do people realize that Cro Cop...

[trane]

Cro Cop was still in his prime.

Guys could have 500 fights and it wont mean crap if they were against cans who get knocked out in 1 round.

Cro Cop has always had poor defence and cant fight backing up.

So your saying Cro Cop would have ate that kick in his "prime"?

Trying too hard.

 

[Smeaglebutcrack**]

My issue with this argument.. Are the Pride fanboys really going to say he was past his prime when he made his debut in the UFC within 5 months of winning the Pride Openweight Grand Prix.

Cro Cop was not past his prime. He had just accomplished his biggest success to date.

Cro Cop struggled because he was in a new organization with very different rules and regulations that he didnt adjust to well. The differences between fighting in a ring versus an octagon are huge. Pride Rules vs. the Unified MMA rules very different. Cro Cops style fit much better in Pride.

Very good points,

However from the humble opinion of someone that has watched Cro Cop since he fought Andy Hug and followed him into MMA.

I believe Cro Cop's prime was in 2003, his downfall i will always see as giving up on K-1 that year when he was at the best he ever was striking wise, and as he gave up K-1 he no longer needed as such diverse striking especially with his combinations as by 2003 everyone in MMA feared him enough for Cro Cop to get away with just using his boxing to set up either a liver kick or high kick.

His overall MMA game improved but the level of his striking degraded and by the time his body began to slow down he wasnt nowhere as good as he once.

 

[R0bert0Lu0ng0**]

Cro Cop would have ate that kick in his prime then kicked Gonzagas head off!!!

Yeah...

 

[PalharesIsHulk**]

Very good points,

However from the humble opinion of someone that has watched Cro Cop since he fought Andy Hug and followed him into MMA.

I believe Cro Cop's prime was in 2003, his downfall i will always see as giving up on K-1 that year when he was at the best he ever was striking wise, and as he gave up K-1 he no longer needed as such diverse striking especially with his combinations as by 2003 everyone in MMA feared him enough for Cro Cop to get away with just using his boxing to set up either a liver kick or high kick.

His overall MMA game improved but the level of his striking degraded and by the time his body began to slow down he wasnt nowhere as good as he once.

Yea if I recall Bonjasky said in 2005 his striking was significantly degraded since their fight.

He has a fight scheduled at the Grand Prix Qtr Finals in New York on the 26th

http://www.igf.jp/event/inoki-bom-ba-ye-2012/

It looks to be a freakshow fight with a SUMO but still. Guy has 4 K1 Fights in 2012. Looks like hes perfectly fine to fight 4 fights in a major organization but he's past his prime 5.5 years ago at the height of his popularity?

So you don't think he's past his prime just because by the end of the year he will have had 4 kickboxing matches?

 

[Thames]

So many fights will definitely take its toll on the body. But it is just pure speculation that he would have been able to dodge that kick regardless of his resum

 

[Matt Boy]

... had over 90 fights (counting MMA K-1 and Amateur boxing matches) by the time he fought Gabriel Gonzaga

I mean he was only 33 I think but was definitely a battle worn 33. I don't know why I find this so crazy, pretty amazing that someone could compete at such a high level at such a rate in multiple sports essentially.

So.. I had 37 ammy boxing fights at 21..? Doesn't mean anything Ammy boxing doesn't mean he's competed at a high level I used to have 1 fight a week.

Your trying a bit hard here.

 

[iowamma2012]

at least some logic in the thread is forthcoming.

I still think the idea that he was a shell of his former self is pretty ridiculous. He might have been at his absolute best in 2003, but he was still one of the best in the world at HW in 2007.

Cro Cop fans just love to make excuses for his poor performance in the octagon. He was game enough to still be fighting to this day in K-1(And winning might I add) and striking just fine.

Instead of people giving Gonzaga credit for being a monster in 2007 and doing the unthinkable, they diminish his accomplishment by throwing out bullshit excuses. And Gonzaga was and still is a beast. 4 of his 6 career losses are to JDS,Werdum(X2), and Randy Couture. on the UFC DVD of UFC 74 The title menu has Randy Couture vs. The guy who KOed Cro Cop.

 

[Blake900]

So many fights will definitely take its toll on the body. But it is just pure speculation that he would have been able to dodge that kick regardless of his resum

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

I think he became overconfident in his kick and kind of bored in the ring and thats when he started to get beat.

Plus he didnt put together any combos in his last fights.

The Crocop who fought Barry looked good, trying different stuff, but he never normally fought like that.

 

[iowamma2012]

Yea if I recall Bonjasky said in 2005 his striking was significantly degraded since their fight.



So you don't think he's past his prime just because by the end of the year he will have had 4 kickboxing matches?

Nooo.I think its funny people say he was past his prime as an excuse for his loss 5.5 years ago due to his body wearing down and giving up mentally but then fought for another 4.5 years in major organizations and is fighting in the premier kick boxing organization today and 3-0 through 2012.

Dont give me the bs excuse he lost because of his body and mental endurance was lacking then fight for another half decade in major organizations. Its revisionist history. Can I agree he was at the taill end of his elite career? Sure, but the same guys that are saying this would not be thinking this if he had won the Gonzaga fight and went on to face Randy. He was perfectly game at the time

 

[redbrownhaze]

My issue with this argument.. Are the Pride fanboys really going to say he was past his prime when he made his debut in the UFC within 5 months of winning the Pride Openweight Grand Prix.

Cro Cop was not past his prime. He had just accomplished his biggest success to date.

Cro Cop struggled because he was in a new organization with very different rules and regulations that he didnt adjust to well. The differences between fighting in a ring versus an octagon are huge. Pride Rules vs. the Unified MMA rules very different. Cro Cops style fit much better in Pride.

UFC was pretty much a different game for crocop. The cage is massive, which I think affected his style. He could no longer pick people apart , his timing was screwed. Stalking guys in a ring was a lot more predictable for him. The talent definitely increased and mirko really didn't change his training over the years. Guys that had only one camp didn't seem to evolve.

 

[MiroHa]

Nooo.I think its funny people say he was past his prime as an excuse for his loss 5.5 years ago due to his body wearing down and giving up mentally but then fought for another 4.5 years in major organizations and is fighting in the premier kick boxing organization today and 3-0 through 2012.

Dont give me the bs excuse he lost because of his body and mental endurance was lacking then fight for another half decade in major organizations. Its revisionist history. Can I agree he was at the taill end of his elite career? Sure, but the same guys that are saying this would not be thinking this if he had won the Gonzaga fight and went on to face Randy. He was perfectly game at the time

You should watch his fights instead of his record and maybe then you would understand that he wasn't in his prime in UFC and had started to decline as early as 2004.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Prime Crocop would have gotten the UFC belt at the time he came in. He'd have beaten Gonzaga and Couture, I'm not sure how long he'd have defended the belt though.

Yeah. The UFC didn't have the Kevin Randlemans of the world at the time so obviously Cro Cop would have ran through everyone

 

[Someone88]

Yeah. The UFC didn't have the Kevin Randlemans of the world at the time so obviously Cro Cop would have ran through everyone

That was an upset loss, Cro Cop won the rematch. Cro Cop was better than Gonzaga, Kongo, Mir, Schaub and Nelson.

 

[Kleistra**]

Yeah. The UFC didn't have the Kevin Randlemans of the world at the time so obviously Cro Cop would have ran through everyone

Exactly. Cro Cop did manage to pull a couple of strings of good victories together, but there's nothing to suggest that even in his prime (whenever that was) he wouldn't have been ko'ed by Gonzaga.

 

[Someone88]

Exactly. Cro Cop did manage to pull a couple of strings of good victories together, but there's nothing to suggest that even in his prime (whenever that was) he wouldn't have been ko'ed by Gonzaga.

Cro Cop had a great sprawl and he was one of the best K-1 fighters if he had stuck around he may have won the GP. That indicates he was very capable of beating Gonzaga.

 

[Kleistra**]

That was an upset loss, Cro Cop won the rematch. Cro Cop was better than Gonzaga, Kongo, Mir, Schaub and Nelson.

No. The mythical creature "prime Cro Cop" (and as evidenced by this thread, people don't even remotely agree when in the history of time that creature existed) was better than the aforementioned fighters.

 

[Kleistra**]

Cro Cop had a great sprawl and he was one of the best K-1 fighters if he had stuck around he may have won the GP. That indicates he was very capable of beating Gonzaga.

He was capable of beating him, sure, but he was capable of losing too. Even "Prime Cro Cop"...

 

[MiroHa]

Exactly. Cro Cop did manage to pull a couple of strings of good victories together, but there's nothing to suggest that even in his prime (whenever that was) he wouldn't have been ko'ed by Gonzaga.

Cro Cop is only top 10 fighter Gonzaga has beat. GG is not an elite fighter but Cro Cop is one of the greatest heavyweights of all time.

 

[Someone88]

No. The mythical creature "prime Cro Cop" (and as evidenced by this thread, people don't even remotely agree when in the history of time that creature existed) was better than the aforementioned fighters.

Lol I'm a bit confused by your intentions here.