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Do Narrow Grip Push ups, and Narrow Grip Bench press yield more benefits in punching?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Justice 4 All, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Justice 4 All

    Justice 4 All Brown Belt

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    My Master/Sensei/Coach has us doing press ups every lesson, and stresses the importance of narrow grip press ups over the traditional variation. He rationalizes it as narrow grip press ups more accurately mimic the dynamics of a proper punch, as well as developing more applicable explosiveness/strength in grappling.

    So Question # 1: Is this rationale justified?

    It got me wondering something else as well. If narrow grip press ups more accurately benefit punching power and endurance, then maybe narrow grip benching will also be more applicable in gaining greater punching strength.

    So Question # 2: If the previous answer (to question 1) was "yes", would you go as far as to advocate narrow grip benching when seeking to increase punching power.


    PS - I am well aware of the fact that it is believed that punching power is derived from increasing general strength levels. However, given everything else remains constant (you continue squatting, dling and benching), would adding narrow grip benching to your routine be justified by the aforementioned rationale?
     
  2. rckvl

    rckvl Blue Belt

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    If you want to increase your punching power you would do well to improve your technique and get stronger in the hips. So increase your squat and deadlifts.
     
  3. Justice 4 All

    Justice 4 All Brown Belt

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    Please read OP before commenting
     
  4. Justice 4 All

    Justice 4 All Brown Belt

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    Oh and I forgot to add, I noticed a moderately well know MMA fighter doing them in a video once upon a time.


    @1.00

    I wonder what he's doing @1.43, it looks punching-endurance related.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  5. rckvl

    rckvl Blue Belt

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    Again, you would do better to focus on those aspects. I read your post completely, I believe Tosa linked a study recently that shows arm/upper body strength only accounts for something like 15% of the force from a punch. But yes, increasing your narrow grip bench press will likely have a positive effect on your punching power. But increasing your squat and deadlift will have a much great effect.
     
  6. Justice 4 All

    Justice 4 All Brown Belt

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    Interesting.

    What about ground and pound?
     
  7. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    Many people on this board have signifcantly more knowledge about striking than me...but I'm fairly certain that if I were to throw any kind of punch it would be an entirely different dynamic than witha any kind of push-up or bench press. I mean stand up, and put your hands where they'd be at the beginning of a push-up or at the bottom of the bench press, does this look anything like how you'd have your arms at the beginning of throwing a punch?

    That said, some people do believe that narrow grip benching has more carryover to athletic activities or believe that since it's easier on the shoulders it makes more sense for athletes. And while both these points may have merit, I don't think they're necessarily signifcant. So just get stronger.
     
  8. Da Speeit

    Da Speeit CANCEROUS POSTER Platinum Member

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    I dunno really, it could also put unnecessary stress on your arms if youre punching in volume.

    I dont see what it does that a lateral row couldnt.
     
  9. rckvl

    rckvl Blue Belt

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    Not sure, I have done very minimal martial arts training, mainly just some bjj. And not much at that. Also I added more to my previous post.
     
  10. Da Speeit

    Da Speeit CANCEROUS POSTER Platinum Member

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    The thing is, if youre punching correctly, it's mostly your back and hips going into the punch, whereas a narrow grip works your triceps harder.

    It's easier on the shoulder, but your shoulders and delts are usually the last things to wear down when you punch in high volume; your biceps and triceps come first.

    So for muscular endurance, i can see the benefit, but it's not really going to make you punch harder.

    I actually think that's a huge problem in lifting for MMA. So many guys just work their arms and base in high weight circuts that they dont realize a vast majority of the power in your punches comes from your core and back.

    That's why guys like Anderson hit so goddamn and have relatively small arms, but guys like Sherk can't bust a grape.
     
  11. Justice 4 All

    Justice 4 All Brown Belt

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    I would imagine that a pushing exercise would benefit more than a pulling one.
     
  12. yocan

    yocan Orange Belt

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    just thinking here but wouldn't bench in general not have much carryover to ground and pound at all seeing as bench is supported. I could see press a bit seeing as you do have to support yourself.

    Honestly for ground and pound I would think practicing punching and something like a sled where your having to use your core to deliver energy would be more beneficial.

    But for developing musculature yeah I'd say for 1 on 1 fighting I would think close grip would be more beneficial, so if doing one or the other unless any reason at all presents itself might as well default to close grip, it won't hurt. Now any serious reason presented at all to switch I would switch (ie arms getting worn out)

    I do agree though this is a get strong primariy thing but the question has a small amount of merit of if x or y which one, might as well do what gives you that little bit more. So I say until challenged logically close grip.

    One more thought, for ground pounding I've seen people do cable resisted crunchs if there is a way to lock y our legs in and pulling off them do a cable type bench with only touching the handles I think that would have much more carryover. and for that matter standing with sleds like football players do (not exactly weightlifting but serious load hitting) I think is ideal. Someone critique my logic cause I have no basis for this and I'm admitting just thinking out loud. (what do you call the sled behind you were your holding handles attached to it? That seems good and while not the exact same motion, it is many of the same muscles)

    oh question for punching isn't rotation work almost the most important beyond get strong? I mean many people lifting seem to overlook that, and isn't that with your ass crazy important in the distribution of a punch? wheres that big and small video? My computer won't let me copy for some reason at the moment... but the rampage jackson versus sumo wrestler video makes me think you need to work on your arms not so much to hurt the other guy but to not break your own hand/wrist/arm.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  13. Da Speeit

    Da Speeit CANCEROUS POSTER Platinum Member

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    When i boxed i swore by the lateral row, and had only a moderate pushup routine in all honesty.

    Youre gettting high resistance, and building your back, shoulders, pecks and obliques and triceps with certain variations.

    It's a full spectrum workout that is relatively easy on the body, unless youre a dumbass like i am and injure your shoulder trying to make premature gains.
     
  14. Da Speeit

    Da Speeit CANCEROUS POSTER Platinum Member

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    Think about who has really good ground and pound

    St.Pierre, Hughes, Shogun, Overeem, Anderson; all guys with very large and very solid backs and cores.

    That's really where your punches come from, bro.
     
  15. James Fuller

    James Fuller Amateur Fighter

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    weighted dips.
     
  16. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    I didn't link to a study, I just stated that I recalled reading such a study. Here's a different study (the numbers are a little different than I recall).

    Boxing: Means of increasing strength of the punch : Strength & Conditioning Journal

    Notice how the more skilled a boxer is, the lower the % contribution of the upper body. Also, keep in mind the speed and skill are both extremely important in striking. So the addition of explosive work might be appropriate at a lower strength level than for someone who practices a sport with less of an emphasis on speed...Ie. perhaps power jerks would be a better choice. But I'm just thinking outloud (well not really, because I'm typing and not speaking).
     
  17. Da Speeit

    Da Speeit CANCEROUS POSTER Platinum Member

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    Great post.

    If you look at guys that hit fucking hard, or read about them and their routines, they had the technique and speed, THEN added explosive work to their regimines.

    Machida, Alves, Overeem, the list goes on.
     
  18. James Fuller

    James Fuller Amateur Fighter

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    ^^Great study. Plus when people thinking punching power they always think straight punches when in reality your hooks and overhand punches are your real "knockout blows" and your hook actually should have a "locked" arm angle and you generate your power by turning your "core" (forgive me rip) much like hitting a baseball. When you smack a homerun is it because you fling your arms at the ball or keep your wrists and elbows firm and turn through it?
     
  19. Justice 4 All

    Justice 4 All Brown Belt

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    ^ True. A bit like this.



    Slowmo shows significant Pec contraction, rotation, and driving with the legs. Textbook.
     
  20. Justice 4 All

    Justice 4 All Brown Belt

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    Anyway, I gather Narrow Grip Benching/Pressing does indeed have (albeit, somewhat limited) carryover to increasing punching strength and endurance.
     

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