Do experts bring Mike Tyson up in "greatest" conversations?

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Alphaboy, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. StewDogg11 Brown Belt

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    But he didn’t and Cooper didn’t put Ali out. Basically, coulda, woulda, shoulda...bullshit.
     
  2. defjaam Kubrat Pulev Belt

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    He had Ali out. It was just a different time when cheating could be practiced.

    I'm giving things a closer look and taking details in consideration, you're the one trying to give it a "Coulda woulda shoulda" spin...Horsecrap.
     
  3. XThe GreatestX Silver Belt

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    I mean. Ali did get up at like 3. So i dunno about "put him out"

    good kd though
     
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  4. StewDogg11 Brown Belt

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    Are you delusional? You just stated Tyson would’ve KO’d Douglas with a focused training camp. Guess what he didn’t. You can’t rewrite history. Typical Tyson fanboy shitpost. I’m stating facts that actually happened. You’re the one literally saying things like “basically”, and “probably”, and “would’ve”.
     
  5. defjaam Kubrat Pulev Belt

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    I mixed things up. He got up, but Dundee admitted in an interview that he cut the gloves open to get him extra time. Some sources say it were minutes, others say it were merely 10-20 seconds.

    Stating facts... Great. Everyone can google facts. If you're not interested in discussion, move along, Gargamel.

    Btw: Whitaker should have basically got the win against Chavez if the judges would have done a better job. Which they potentially could have and should have.
     
  6. StewDogg11 Brown Belt

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    Shitpost. A robbery or close decision loss isn’t the same as a brutal KO defeat.
     
  7. XThe GreatestX Silver Belt

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    It was 20ish seconds. They had another pair of gloves right at ringside that were quickly brought up to the ring.

    The myth of that whole deal i think is a little bigger than what actually happened
     
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  8. cocksure Silver Belt

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    They changed gloves in 20 seconds? Come on..
     
  9. XThe GreatestX Silver Belt

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    my bad: 40 seconds.

    and it was one glove. Here is the account from the guy who did it.

    It has been reported that officials went back to the dressing room to get a pair of replacement gloves, but they were unable to find a pair. However, Teddy Waltham, then General Secretary of the British Boxing Board of Control, said that is not true.

    "Referee Little was called to Clay's corner, and then shouted to us officials at ringside for a new pair, which I already had quite near," Waltham said. "There was no question of anyone having to go to the dressing room to get them, as has been suggested."

    Harry Vines, who later became Chief Inspector for the BBBofC, also said that there were a suitable pair of replacement gloves at ringside. "I am not sure whether both gloves were replaced or just the split one, but the latter certainly was," he said. "Certainly no one had to go all the way back to the dressing room to get a pair."

    It has also been reported that five minutes passed before the fifth round started, but ringside timekeeper Stan Courtney said that is false. "At no time was I instructed to stop my watch to allow for the refitting of the gloves," he said. "Therefore, I waited until I got the signal from referee Little to ring the bell. When I did so, my watch showed that the interval between rounds had in fact been 1:40."
     
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  10. sweetviolenturg Red Belt Professional Fighter

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    Angelo Dundee told me himself that he helped perpetuate the myth of his having made the tear in the glove larger in order to give Ali extra time to recover because it made for a good story in the press & that a little hyperbole never hurt one's career. So, the whole scenario of Ali basically being out & needing Dundee's help in order to survive so he could come back & beat Cooper is a fabrication. Just watch a video of the fight that plays out in real-time & you'll see that.
     
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  11. rj144 Gold Belt

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    Yeah, but who does he have on his resume in that time frame at his peak? The only impressive fighter Tyson fought was Holyfield and he lost. Even Berbick wasn't considered on Tyson's level when he won the championship.

    Ali fought Frazier and Foreman (past peak)... not to mention Liston was considered to be Tyson like when he first fought him.
     
  12. sepp2323 Green Belt

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    Spinks was a good fighter and that was a great win for Mike. Mike on that night could have been trouble for any heavyweight in any era. not saying he would win but in those first few rounds watch out
     
  13. welcometohavoc Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    I always view Mike Tyson as the Mark McGwire of boxing. He captivated the world for a short amount of time with his insane power but when it comes down to it he wasn't on top that long and he doesn't compare to other people in the GOAT conversation.
     
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  14. mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    spinks was a great lightheavyweight who beat an aging holmes but i never saw what the big deal of that fight was. I saw a blowout coming and didn't really pay much attention. Spinks had nothing for Mike, his style was to bullshit guys, he'd move all wierd, frustrate guys and spinks was pretty dirty but against a guy that much bigger, stronger and faster than him, i didn't see him able to pull any of his usual shit. I've said it before but I think Tyson deserves more credit for beating many of the other heavyweights he beat than spinks. I still don't get how people judge so much on so little, a minute and a half or whatever, what did he really show that was so special. Spinks was scared shitless and went down from a body blow, basically beat before the bell.

    Also, i've never been all that impressed by blowouts, they tell you little about a fighter other than they can clobber an opponent. People like kayo punchers, always have, but there is a lot more to the sport than that.
     
  15. sweetviolenturg Red Belt Professional Fighter

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    IMO, as someone who was around the latter part of Ali's career & who's known Tyson since we were amateurs together back in the Empire State Games, I believe that Ali would stop Tyson in the later rounds had they both met at their peaks. Ali had the type of physical make-up, style, & mentality to do a number on Mike. I don't think that Mike could cope with Ali's movement, his jab, or his physicality. Ask any former Ali opponent about what surprised them most about him & they'll tell you his physical strength. And I think Ali would negate much of Tyson's offense by sticking him with his jab & then shutting him down every time he'd get close. Which would frustrate Mike & wear him down mentally & physically. Despite his smaller stature in height & his explosive handspeed, one of Tyson's biggest weaknesses was fighting on the inside. He didn't like to do it & he wasn't very good at it. Ali would eat him up at that range.

    Of course, Tyson would be dangerous against just about any opponent in the early rounds by I just can't envision him ever being able to get Ali out of there in a round or two. So, it would go rounds with Ali controlling things more & more as it goes on until a frustrated, tired is battered into a defeat in about eleven rounds.
     
  16. Alphaboy Silver Belt

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    A knowledgeable person to hear from, I think the exact same thing.

    Mike also said Ali would beat him but I didn't necessarily take it as proof that he meant or believed that (he could've) but what else would he say when asked about how he'd measure up against a legend? Besides Ali just died at the time he was asked this.

    Really? I thought that's where Mike was most comfortable? I thought he'd do the whole peek-a-boo thing and get inside?

    Also... you have any pics with Mike? Lol You seem to always deliver with those.
     
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  17. defjaam Kubrat Pulev Belt

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    That's one of the misconceptions about Tyson.
    Mike fought at mid-range and he was lethal right there. When it got too close, he would even initiate clinches, so the ref would break it up and get him back to his favorite position - mid-range.

    He did throw brutal body shots on the inside, but he wasn't consistent like Duran or Qawi.
     
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  18. sweetviolenturg Red Belt Professional Fighter

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    Sure, bro. Glad to oblige. This pic was taken at the weigh-in for his fight with Reggie Gross at Madison Square Garden on the undercard of the Hector Camacho - Edwin Rosario fight. I was in town as a sparring partner for Camacho & Tyson needed another second in his corner for the fight so I got the job. All I did was carry the buckets & towels but it was still pretty cool.
    20200728_135932.jpg
     
  19. sweetviolenturg Red Belt Professional Fighter

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    And since this thread is about a hypothetical match-up between the two of them this is a pic of my first meeting with Ali back in '85 when he came to Buffalo to help promote a heavyweight title fight card there between Greg Page & Tony Tubbs.
    20200728_140317.jpg
     
  20. mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    One huge difference between ali and tyson is the way they treated fans/media, mike was known to throws shit, chase and scream at them, ali was open to the world.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020

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