Disrespectful?

[blanko]

Is this the same with wrestling if someone's more accomplished? Are there times when it's more disrespectful? Does Marcelo feel disrespected when he's asked and obviously rolls with all these lower belts at his seminars?

dude one of the reasons why people go to seminars is so they can say "i rolled with so and so" and take a picture with them.. If marcelo didn't roll with people at seminars they wouldn't come.

If say the whitebelt is like a 45 yr. old doctor, and the brown a 26 yr. old grad student, is it disrespectful for the white to ask for a roll?

grad students know when to shut the fuck up in front of a experienced doctor. Grad students don't ask questions or if they can perform an operation together.

 

[blanko]

The rule makes plenty of sense to not hoard the higher belts. I just have a problem with it being considered "disrespectful."

no it's not disrespectfull but my guess is that something was lost in the translation. Look when i went to train in brasil most of the schools were filled with purples/browns. I trained in rio,campinas, and sao paulo and there just werent many white belts there. Brasil doesn't have this problem (or at least in SP and rio).

 

[SFinclined]

I explained the nature of this in my post.

I read you're post, but it doesn't make sense when you said that it is an "entirely selfish pursuit" to ask a higher belt to roll. Isn't starting BJJ a selfish act? I mean do people start to make everyone else good a BJJ? No, they start to get better themselves. In you're theory lifting weights is a purely selfish pursuit. Having a job is a purely selfish pursuit. People do all these things to better themselves.

 

[Cardio King]

When my instructor is pairing us up for sparring, when he calls the name of a higher belt I raise my hand in the air, and usually get picked.

I get worked, but it's the best way to learn.

 

[blanko]

I read you're post, but it doesn't make sense when you said that it is an "entirely selfish pursuit" to ask a higher belt to roll. Isn't starting BJJ a selfish act? I mean do people start to make everyone else good a BJJ? No, they start to get better themselves. In you're theory lifting weights is a purely selfish pursuit. Having a job is a purely selfish pursuit. People do all these things to better themselves.

so according to your line of thinking there would be nothing wrong with colored belts just straight out refusing to drill techniques with you, give you pointers, and/or spar with you right?

 

[Prokofievian]

I read you're post, but it doesn't make sense when you said that it is an "entirely selfish pursuit" to ask a higher belt to roll. Isn't starting BJJ a selfish act? I mean do people start to make everyone else good a BJJ? No, they start to get better themselves. In you're theory lifting weights is a purely selfish pursuit. Having a job is a purely selfish pursuit. People do all these things to better themselves.

It actually does make sense. Of course we start things to become better at them, but when it starts to come at the expense of the others who are assisting us, the selfishness comes into play. You missed the point that it cant give back to the upper-belt, and can only give to you.

Weight lifting is a self-oriented pursuit, but when was the last time you had to grab every good lifter around you for a couple minutes while lifting? Last I checked, I get a personal trainer for a day, we go over my goals, decide on a program, and I just go and do it. I dont detriment other people.

Having a job is an exchange of personal services for credit, I fail to see how this, or any of your examples either pertain to my point, or support yours.

 

[SFinclined]

so according to your line of thinking there would be nothing wrong with colored belts just straight out refusing to drill techniques with you, give you pointers, and/or spar with you right?

Absolutely, but people won't get to higher belts if they aren't willing to help others, so there aren't to many of them.

Another question. When does someone know they are not a risk of "disrespecting" a higher belt by asking for a roll? If someone is blue on tuesday, and gets promoted to purple tuesday night, is he disrespecting a brown to ask for a roll on wednesday? The rule doesn't seem rigid enough to be completely understood. Is it disrespectful to ask a brown or black for help drilling? Or just rolling? Because whether you're drilling with a brown or rolling with him, you're still "hoarding" him, right?

 

[blanko]

i have already said that the whole "disrespect" thing is probably a mistranslation. It's a matter of practicality.

 

[SFinclined]

It actually does make sense. Of course we start things to become better at them, but when it starts to come at the expense of the others who are assisting us, the selfishness comes into play. You missed the point that it cant give back to the upper-belt, and can only give to you.

Weight lifting is a self-oriented pursuit, but when was the last time you had to grab every good lifter around you for a couple minutes while lifting? Last I checked, I get a personal trainer for a day, we go over my goals, decide on a program, and I just go and do it. I dont detriment other people.

Having a job is an exchange of personal services for credit, I fail to see how this, or any of your examples either pertain to my point, or support yours.

And you pay for that personal trainer, right? Don't you pay for BJJ? Do you only lift weights with friends that are you're size or smaller? When was the last time you asked a weight lifter if you could work in, and he took it as disrespect? I agree that if someone is training for a comp. or something then they should be training with others of the same skill level.

 

[blanko]

To all those who complain about this rule. What combat sports have you trained in prior to bjj/grappling and how long have you trained bjj/grappling?

 

[Trickster***]

Im a white belt and I agree with this rule 100%. Im paying money to learn jujitsu not to train white belts.

HAHAHAHAHA best line ever!!!! A white belt insulting white belts - CLASSIC!!

 

[SFinclined]

i have already said that the whole "disrespect" thing is probably a mistranslation. It's a matter of practicality.

You did, and I completely agree with not hoarding the higher level belts. I just don't understand when it's no longer hoarding.

 

[blanko]

it's no longer hoading when you realize that sparring someone is more benificial for you than him and you find someone at your lvl. It's "hoarding" when there are alot of new students.. That's why this rule was made. It's not an indivisual thing. It's aobut the influx of noob white belts that makes this rule practical.

 

[Trickster***]

Or maybe he realized his gf was fucking someone else and sneaks away...

You are forever up Joey's ass dude, every conversation about Scarola you add your 2 cents! Get off his nuts! Or if you actually think you are good come down to his school and roll with him....or any of his top 4-5 guys they will ALL tool you up!

You are the definition of a keyboard warrior my friend!!

WHy do you care he left the show? Or care about his gf? That shit has nothing to do with you!! This isnt a relationship forum its a grappling forum...why dont you just worry about his skill? Save all your other worthless comments for the wasteland!!

 

[Holly]

It is amazing what tit's and ass can get you:redface:

It's true. You should try getting some every now and then.







I keed, I keed.

I'm sure if we looked like trolls they wouldn't be as helpful, but I'm certainly not going to complain. And for the record, I don't have big boobs, lol.

 

[SFinclined]

To all those who complain about this rule. What combat sports have you trained in prior to bjj/grappling and how long have you trained bjj/grappling?

I have a BB in Hapkido, which I trained for a long time to get. That was when I bought into the TMA bullshit, but I didn't learn from a Mcdojo. I have trained grappling (no-gi) for about 3 yrs. I am relatively new to Gi training, but other than some grip changes and new chokes, the transition is pretty smooth. I train with a brown and couple purples, all of which have no problem rolling with me. I can usually match the purples control-wise without the Gi. I fall victim to alot of Gi chokes and sweeps that are done with use of the Gi. As I am still very green with the Gi.

 

[Prokofievian]

And you pay for that personal trainer, right? Don't you pay for BJJ? Do you only lift weights with friends that are you're size or smaller? When was the last time you asked a weight lifter if you could work in, and he took it as disrespect? I agree that if someone is training for a comp. or something then they should be training with others of the same skill level.

Again this really doesnt support your point or pertain to mine.

Of course I pay for the personal trainer, and it's an exchange of goods and services, done. But I dont pay the personal trainer to be my workout buddy, nor do I even have a workout buddy, nor do I interrupt peoples workouts to help me with mine.

Working in is not the same as rolling. In rolling he is necessarily involved with your sloppy jiu jitsu, and he is burdened by it because it is time that he can never get back. If you're working in, you're doing your sets while he's resting...aka, doing nothing.



The rule is this at my academy: " In general, you aren't supposed to ask higher belts to spar, and you aren't supposed to refuse higher belts when they ask you. Of course, if you know the guys and train with them regularly, this isn't the case, but in Brazil you generally don't do that."

"...you aren't supposed to ask higher belts to spar..."

To spar. Meaning you can ask them questions. If it's open mat, and they arent rolling, you can ask them to go over a technique and teach you this stuff, but sparring is another story, and that's where my arguement for 'disrespect' comes into play.

 

[blanko]

I have a BB in Hapkido, which I trained for a long time to get. That was when I bought into the TMA bullshit, but I didn't learn from a Mcdojo. I have trained grappling (no-gi) for about 3 yrs. I am relatively new to Gi training, but other than some grip changes and new chokes, the transition is pretty smooth. I train with a brown and couple purples, all of which have no problem rolling with me. I can usually match the purples control-wise without the Gi. I fall victim to alot of Gi chokes and sweeps that are done with use of the Gi. As I am still very green with the Gi.

Then you should know how it feels to have an influx of new students that want to hoard the more experienced guys thus not giving the experienced guys to train with each other.

 

[ssullivan80]

let's be honest... other than exposure to the "flow" of jiu jitsu.. what is a noob gonna get out of sparring a black belt?

an understanding of what it takes to be a BB! I.E: reality check! Noob's often come to a gym with a whole lot of ego and very little skill. A well trained BB should take pride in showing a noob (white belt) why it takes years of dedication to attain a BB! Soon as the noob learns to lose that ego his training advances twice as fast! Furthermore, being a BB means constantly learning and perfecting your art. Truth is, a BB can learn from a White Belt, if nothing else the BB becomes better at recognizing a rookies common mistakes, making them a better teacher!

 

[SFinclined]

Then you should know how it feels to have an influx of new students that want to hoard the more experienced guys thus not giving the experienced guys to train with each other.

I train at a small gym, so we don't really have an influx of new students, but I agree with not hoarding. If I was a higher level belt I would pair similar skill levels and float through class correcting as needed, and if someone wanted roll with me I would just say, "not right now", "later", "no" or "keep drilling".