Disneyland: The Latest Victim of the Anti-Vaxxers

[Siderealmotion]

I was alluding to how easily polio is transferred, saying that it's NOT. I'm sure out of the hundreds of thousands NOT vaccinated, some have encountered polio, however it's not as easily to create a problem as 7437 was alluding to with the comment "Everyone gets polio in the infected areas" and his "SUPER contagious" comment.

I think one of the big fears with polio with regard to vaccination rates is that polio itself is fairly contagious, while cases of paralytic polio are relatively rare, and many cases are asymptomatic. A soldier returning from pakistan could start a chain that can travel quite far before paralytic polio cases start to emerge.

 

[Arkain2K]

So, If you're vaccinated you can still get the disease? Why would anyone bother?

Are there clinical trials to test the efficacy of vaccines?

The MMR vaccine for Measles/Mumps/Rubella remains effective for the life-time for 99% of receipients.

Flu vaccine you need every year for different strains that scientists predicts will hit your country (this year is particularly brutal for the U.S because the prediction is WAY off).

I thought these are basic knowledge that everyone already knew.

 

[7437]

I was alluding to how easily polio is transferred, saying that it's NOT. I'm sure out of the hundreds of thousands NOT vaccinated, some have encountered polio, however it's not as easily to create a problem as 7437 was alluding to with the comment "Everyone gets polio in the infected areas" and his "SUPER contagious" comment.

Everyone does have polio in infected areas. Read what the CDC link I gave you actually says. Most people are asymptomatic.

Vaccines are what allows you to walk around today without having to worry about polio. Not sanitation.

We haven't had anyone unvaccinated go to a country with polio, contract it, then come back and spread it around because there are relatively few unvaccinated people that visit those countries, and extremely few children ( who are most likely to spread polio, which you would know if you read the CDC piece i posted. )

 

[HugeMember]

The MMR vaccine for Measles/Mumps/Rubella remains effective for the life-time for 99% of receipients.

Flu vaccine you need every year for different strains that scientists predicts will hit your country (this year is particularly brutal for the U.S because the prediction is WAY off).

I thought these are basic knowledge that everyone already knew.

I'm asking for a clinical study. For example, there would be group that would get the vaccine and then there would be a group who would get a placebo. Then they would expose both groups to the disease and see if there is a significant difference between the infection rates of either.

Now, much of the vaccine efficacy claims are due to long term studies over time. The problem with those studies is other things can change over the same time period. Those studies can provide evidence, but may not be "proof."

BTW I'm not anti-vaccine, but I reject the notion that taking a vaccine carries no risks. It may be rare, but there is a risk. How is that weighed with the risk of not taking the vaccine? Who's to say?

I certainly don't like the idea of being forced by law to take any jab the authorities deem fit.

 

[Like A Bas]

like I said, where's this mythical boogieman? surely out of the hundreds of thousands there should be something by now right? I mean something as highly contagious as polio, should easily penetrate the population of unvaccinated....... unless it's not all that highly contagious to start with.

Should we start enforcing ebola and HIV vaccines while we're at it?

unlike polio, ebola is much more dangerous....

Polio was a mythical boogieman?

"the 1952 polio epidemic became the worst outbreak in the nation's history. Of nearly 58,000 cases reported that year 3,145 died and 21,269 were left with mild to disabling paralysis"

Not mythical, but certainly a boogieman. More than 9/10 people have no symptoms. If 58,000 cases were reported (meaning a person sought medical care), that's a half million or so infected, or .3% of the population of America in one year. What would keep it from being a disaster again in 2015 would be that most people are immune. Give up that immunity and the boogieman comes back.

 

[Siderealmotion]

I'm asking for a clinical study. For example, there would be group that would get the vaccine and then there would be a group who would get a placebo. Then they would expose both groups to the disease and see if there is a significant difference between the infection rates of either.

Just wanted to point out that the reason no such studies exist is because they are deemed unethical and are illegal.

Do no harm doesn't jive very well with intentionally exposing humans to disease without protection.

 

[Like A Bas]

BTW I'm not anti-vaccine, but I reject the notion that taking a vaccine carries no risks. It may be rare, but there is a risk. How is that weighed with the risk of not taking the vaccine? Who's to say?

The people who do the research and development of vaccines are "to say"

Go find out ffs. It's not like it requires Scooby Howser and the Medical Mystery Van to have an informed opinion on the subject.

 

[HugeMember]

The people who do the research and development of vaccines are "to say"

So, you believe in forcing people to take vaccines?

Go find out ffs. It's not like it requires Scooby Howser and the Medical Mystery Van to have an informed opinion on the subject.

So, there are zero risks?

 

[Like A Bas]

So, you believe in forcing people to take vaccines?



So, there are zero risks?

Truther-style questions? lol


Yes

No

 

[IDL]

#mybodymychoice

 

[HugeMember]

Just wanted to point out that the reason no such studies exist is because they are deemed unethical and are illegal.

Do no harm doesn't jive very well with intentionally exposing humans to disease without protection.

That answers the question. That would mean that studies done on vaccine efficacy are more like social experiments.

 

[Like A Bas]

#mybodymychoice

So when I give somebody a disease, their body becomes mine? Sweet. Gimme an AIDS needle and a prom queen.

 

[HugeMember]

Truther-style questions? lol


Yes

No

Okay comrade.

 

[Siderealmotion]

That answers the question. That would mean that studies done on vaccine efficacy are more like social experiments.

By that definition, the only way to test bullet resistant armor is to shoot at people who are wearing it, and a placebo group who gets cardboard.

 

[Like A Bas]

Okay comrade.

You sound like a guy who would get mad about a thousand lives being saved by a vaccine, but one person dying of complications, because evil government.

 

[HugeMember]

By that definition, the only way to test bullet resistant armor is to shoot at people who are wearing it, and a placebo group who gets cardboard.

Nope. One can test body armor without a person inside. The physical evidence is clear.

In addition, one not wearing body armor will not make another's body armor stronger or weaker.

 

[Siderealmotion]

Nope. One can test body armor without a person inside. The physical evidence is clear.

In addition, one not wearing body armor will not make another's body armor stronger or weaker.

And you can test a vaccine without exposing someone to the disease. We know how the various types of T and B cells work. We know how memory cells work. If the vaccine causes the creation of memory cells for the antigen, the vaccine works.

 

[7437]

So we are just ignoring the MASSIVE amount of studies that show vaccines are safe and effective now? And the CDC, AMA, and literally every other credible organization?

I have yet to see the anti side bring any sort of evidence at all to this debate.

 

[HugeMember]

And you can test a vaccine without exposing someone to the disease. We know how the various types of T and B cells work. We know how memory cells work. If the vaccine causes the creation of memory cells for the antigen, the vaccine works.

So, how do people contract a disease they've been vaccinated against?

 

[Ayin]

So we are just ignoring the MASSIVE amount of studies that show vaccines are safe and effective now? And the CDC, AMA, and literally every other credible organization?

I have yet to see the anti side bring any sort of evidence at all to this debate.

There's not going to be.

There is going to be constant repetition of 'counter-points' though, despite them already being answered several times in the very thread they have been posted in.

And that is why we have rising numbers of infections of measles.

But at least Jenny McCarthy cured her childs Autism and Lizard People aren't sterilizing us.