Disneyland: The Latest Victim of the Anti-Vaxxers

[7437]

Do you think that a person who opts out of vaccinating their child is as socially criminal as a person with an active, potentially deadly transmittable disease who refuses quarantine in order to mix with the population? Because if you do it would help me understand the motivation of the extremists within the pro-vax community.

lol, pro vax extremists. think i go around poking people with vaccinated needles or something?

you cant even just come out and say that you think vaccines are dangerous because you know that it is easy to tear that argument apart.

 

[Ayin]

Do you think that a person who opts out of vaccinating their child is as socially criminal as a person with an active, potentially deadly transmittable disease who refuses quarantine in order to mix with the population? Because if you do it would help me understand the motivation of the extremists within the pro-vax community.

If you're referring to the healthcare worker in the US during the Ebola scare, that is a great case of hysteria which ignores the medical science plus an ill informed public. Basically the exact same as the anti-vaccine situation.

 

[chardog]

The fear is that the numbers of these people will grow, and this kind of outbreak will get worse and more common as less people are vaccinated.

The worst outcome would be if someone contracts one of the "dead" diseases outside of the USA and brings it back. Something like Polio or Diptheria.

well that really depends on how contagious they can be. My understanding is that measles is highly contagious, while other diseases like diptheria less, and polio even less.

 

[7437]

well that really depends on how contagious they can be. My understanding is that measles is highly contagious, while other diseases like diptheria less, and polio even less.

are you suggesting that Polio is not dangerous ? eradicating it ( in the USA)is one of medicine's greatest achievements.

Also, its SUPER contagious. Generally speaking everyone in endemic areas has Polio, it only is symptomatic for 5-10%, and 1-2% get meningitis from it. Meningitis is really bad though, and 2% of everyone is a crushingly high rate.

 

[ultramanhyata]

lol, pro vax extremists. think i go around poking people with vaccinated needles or something?

I know it's hard to admit that you place sick people consciously choosing to infect well people with their dangerous diseases on the same moral plane as well people choosing not to immunize their well children. Because it is crazy.

Here's a fairly accurate analogy to the position of vaccine extremists: For purposes of self-protection you have chosen to buy a gun and conceal carry. I have chosen not to. We are both in a public place when some deranged gunman stands up and starts shooting. You try and fire on him but your weapon jams. The shooter ends up getting off a round that critically injures you. You then hold me responsible for your injury, based on the reasoning that if I, too, had been armed, I could have taken the shooter down before your weapon was put to the test.

you cant even just come out and say that you think vaccines are dangerous because you know that it is easy to tear that argument apart.

Vaccines are drugs and dangerous by definition. Even within the pro-vaccination mainstream there are pediatricians who will counsel parents to spread their child's immunizations out - to not adhere to the recommended schedule timeline - in order to give their child's immune system more time to recover between doses.

You strike me as a black-and-white vaccine warrior. But it is a complicated, nuanced issue (as are many issues pertaining to pediatric medical intervention) for anyone with a working mind.

 

[Dayman1984]

Ah, so lots of people are listening to brilliant minds such as Jenny McCarthy I see. We're fucking doomed. These people don't remember what it was like when these diseases killed children, and that's the problem. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[7437]

I know it's hard to admit that you place sick people consciously choosing to infect well people with their dangerous diseases on the same moral plane as well people choosing not to immunize their well children. Because it is crazy.

Here's a fairly accurate analogy to the position of vaccine extremists: For purposes of self-protection you have chosen to buy a gun and conceal carry. I have chosen not to. We are both in a public place when some deranged gunman stands up and starts shooting. You try and fire on him but your weapon jams. The shooter ends up getting off a round that critically injures you. You then hold me responsible for your injury, based on the reasoning that if I, too, had been armed, I could have taken the shooter down before your weapon was put to the test.



Vaccines are drugs and dangerous by definition. Even within the pro-vaccination mainstream there are pediatricians who will counsel parents to spread their child's immunizations out - to not adhere to the recommended schedule timeline - in order to give their child's immune system more time to recover between doses.

You strike me as a black-and-white vaccine warrior. But it is a complicated, nuanced issue (as are many issues pertaining to pediatric medical intervention) for anyone with a working mind.

there is only 1 response to this.

 

[ultramanhyata]

If you're referring to the healthcare worker in the US during the Ebola scare, that is a great case of hysteria which ignores the medical science plus an ill informed public. Basically the exact same as the anti-vaccine situation.

I wasn't thinking of that case. I was thinking more along the lines of someone diagnosed with AIDS who, instead of refraining from sexual contact, is out sleeping around with unknowing partners. Yes, this has actually happened. Do you think Mr. Aidspenis is the moral equivalent of a dad who chooses not to vaccinate his child against chicken pox?

 

[chardog]

are you suggesting that Polio is not dangerous ? eradicating it ( in the USA)is one of medicine's greatest achievements.

Also, its SUPER contagious. Generally speaking everyone in endemic areas has Polio, it only is symptomatic for 5-10%, and 1-2% get meningitis from it. Meningitis is really bad though, and 2% of everyone is a crushingly high rate.

you play with shit to get polio? We dont live in africa where the water can get contaminated for polio.

and if you're vaccinated, why the heck should YOU care if some anti vax person gets infected? Whats it to you, you're vaccinated. Like the other poster mentioned, there ARE reasons not to get vaccinated, not the right time or allergic reactions. My daughter is full vaccinated, but she gets allergic reactions and bad reactions to vaccinations. No way am I ever getting her anything unnecessary.

 

[7437]

you play with shit to get polio? We dont live in africa where the water can get contaminated for polio.

and if you're vaccinated, why the heck should YOU care if some anti vax person gets infected? Whats it to you, you're vaccinated. Like the other poster mentioned, there ARE reasons not to get vaccinated, not the right time or allergic reactions. My daughter is full vaccinated, but she gets allergic reactions and bad reactions to vaccinations. No way am I ever getting her anything unnecessary.

impressively ignorant post. Everyone gets polio in infected areas. Also, the vacciene is not 100% percent effective, so there is still a small risk afterwards. Having a bunch of people running around with the disease greatly increases the chance that someone that did not gain immunity will be infected.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/polio.pdf

Did you not go to high school or something? This is the basic history of why we have vaccines at all.

 

[Siderealmotion]

you play with shit to get polio? We dont live in africa where the water can get contaminated for polio.

In which of these two environments are you more likely to contract polio?

America 1950

India today

 

[chardog]

impressively ignorant post. Everyone gets polio in infected areas. Also, the vacciene is not 100% percent effective, so there is still a small risk afterwards. Having a bunch of people running around with the disease greatly increases the chance that someone that did not gain immunity will be infected.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/polio.pdf

Did you not go to high school or something? This is the basic history of why we have vaccines at all.

polio contamination..... we dont have that issue in america you dolt.

tell me how my post is ignorant you fool, you dont even know how polio is transferred. Even if someone sick from africa comes to america with polio, it's still pretty damn hard to spread it.

 

[chardog]

In which of these two environments are you more likely to contract polio?

America 1950


India today

reread my post "We dont live in water where water can get contaminated for polio"

that answers your question.

 

[Siderealmotion]

reread my post "We dont live in water where water can get contaminated for polio"

that answers your question.

Yet the slums of India today, where people walk through fecal matter all the time and don't have access to clean water, are free of polio.

While America in 1950 had chlorinated public water supplies, modern septic practices, and sewage treatment. Very few things have changed on that front between then and now.

Which had epidemic polio and which doesn't?

 

[chardog]

Yet the slums of India today, where people walk through fecal matter all the time and don't have access to clean water, are free of polio.

While America in 1950 had chlorinated public water supplies, modern septic practices, and sewage treatment. Very few things have changed on that front between then and now.

Which had epidemic polio and which doesn't?

I dont remember ever having a polio epidemic in the 50's, so none of the above.

You can say that india irradicated polio, fine, however bringing it back to a modern america, not likely at all, considering how many people go unvaccinated as is. Literally hundreds of thousands unvaccinated, and where is the problem?

I recall even before the polio vaccine was introduced, polio was on a massive downtrend due to cleaner water practices.

We know for a fact that hundreds of thousands dont get vaccinated for polio, so where's the boogieman?

 

[Siderealmotion]

I dont remember ever having a polio epidemic in the 50's, so none of the above.

You can say that india irradicated polio, fine, however bringing it back to a modern america, not likely at all, considering how many people go unvaccinated as is. Literally hundreds of thousands unvaccinated, and where is the problem?

I recall even before the polio vaccine was introduced, polio was on a massive downtrend due to cleaner water practices.

We know for a fact that hundreds of thousands dont get vaccinated for polio, so where's the boogieman?

Yeah... polio was no big deal in 1950... :icon_neut

 

[chardog]

Yeah... polio was no big deal in 1950... :icon_neut

like I said, where's this mythical boogieman? surely out of the hundreds of thousands there should be something by now right? I mean something as highly contagious as polio, should easily penetrate the population of unvaccinated....... unless it's not all that highly contagious to start with.

Should we start enforcing ebola and HIV vaccines while we're at it?

unlike polio, ebola is much more dangerous....

 

[Siderealmotion]

like I said, where's this mythical boogieman? surely out of the hundreds of thousands there should be something by now right? I mean something as highly contagious as polio, should easily penetrate the population of unvaccinated....... unless it's not all that highly contagious to start with.

Should we start enforcing ebola and HIV vaccines while we're at it?

unlike polio, ebola is much more dangerous....

Thankfully, due to the Polio Eradication Initiative, there are only three countries where Polio remains active in the wild. The point wasn't that Polio was an immenant threat, it was that "playing in shit" has nothing to do with whether you stand a chance to contract it or not. If we can overcome the cultural aversions people have to vaccination in the remaining countries, polio will be gone in the next few years. Until it's gone, the vaccination is a precaution to prevent large outbreaks due to international travel.

 

[chardog]

Thankfully, due to the Polio Eradication Initiative, there are only three countries where Polio remains active in the wild. The point wasn't that Polio was an immenant threat, it was that "playing in shit" has nothing to do with whether you stand a chance to contract it or not. If we can overcome the cultural aversions people have to vaccination in the remaining countries, polio will be gone in the next few years. Until it's gone, the vaccination is a precaution to prevent large outbreaks due to international travel.

I was alluding to how easily polio is transferred, saying that it's NOT. I'm sure out of the hundreds of thousands NOT vaccinated, some have encountered polio, however it's not as easily to create a problem as 7437 was alluding to with the comment "Everyone gets polio in the infected areas" and his "SUPER contagious" comment.

 

[HugeMember]

Huh? You can still die in a car crash if you wear a seat belt, or a motorcycle accident if you're wearing a helmet. That doesn't mean those devices don't lead to better outcomes.



Yes.

Do you have a link?