Huh? You can still die in a car crash if you wear a seat belt, or a motorcycle accident if you're wearing a helmet. That doesn't mean those devices don't lead to better outcomes.
Yes.
Disneyland: The Latest Victim of the Anti-Vaxxers
- Thread starter Arkain2K
- Start date
Huh? You can still die in a car crash if you wear a seat belt, or a motorcycle accident if you're wearing a helmet. That doesn't mean those devices don't lead to better outcomes.
Yes.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2005
- Messages
- 26,735
- Reaction score
- 8,467
this enforcement is already in place........ try to get your kid to school without vaccines......
You can in the places mentioned in the article. That the problem.
In some cases, as with the Flu Vaccine, each years vaccine is made off of what is predicted (best guess) to be the most common/powerful mutation of last years virus. Unfortunately, the flu mutates quickly, and so even if you were successfully vaccinated for one strand, if a different strand infects you, you could still easily get sick. Despite this, it's seen as a 'why not' situation, where there is no harm, and potential benefit, especially to vulnerable populations like the elderly, where even if 1/10 care workers does not contract the virus because of the vaccines, that could very easily prevent death.
In other cases, vaccination is not a 100% guarantee of success, and many vaccinations are two parts, requiring you to get two shots spread out over a number of years to be complete, which for some reason many people simply don't do.
The basic premise of protection through vaccination is called 'herd immunity'.
All of this information is easy to find. Very easy. If you need me to explain anything else, feel free to ask.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2014
- Messages
- 9,540
- Reaction score
- 0
You can get exemptions for personal belief.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2010
- Messages
- 30,799
- Reaction score
- 7,619
Oh, I see. Yeah, there's nothing technically difficult about analyzing the outcomes of various compounds introduced on a large scale into an entirely diverse human population of billions. Anyone who isn't putting full trust in the current data on those two issues is clearly anti-science. A looney tune. They may as well be questioning the temperature at which water freezes or boils. Because it's all the same thing. It's science. Basically.
When someone can show me an example of a food or drug that was deemed safe by the FDA (an organization made up of real, credentialed scientists - not pseudonutters) that later proved dangerous/deadly within the human population I might rethink my position. But until then, I'm standing my ground on the hard science.
so... you think GMOs and vaccines arent safe?
The FDA has screwed up in the past, therefore the thoroughly discredited notions of pseudo-celebrities like Jenny McCarthy, frauds like Andrew Wakefield, and gluten-free soccer moms everywhere should be held in the same esteem as those held by the scientific and medical communities.
There's no way we can fault people for that.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2009
- Messages
- 25,728
- Reaction score
- 1,378
It's like a tyrants wet dream to be able to have that kind of power over free people. Totally not open for abuse.
In the case of Vaccines (and I love the lumping together of these two things, as if they are the exact same...) the basic argument goes:
'You can't say for sure that X, so therefore Y.'
In this case, x= Vaccines are 100% safe and y= I'll avoid them for my health.
This INCREDIBLY stupid argument acts as if the vaccines are the major health risk, and without them, you would be guaranteed to be completely healthy, an idea which is born of the simple ignorance of a population that never had to deal with, say, Polio.
'Since no one I knew has had Polio, there is no reason i should be concerned about Polio. The vaccination for Polio, though, might make me sick, and without it I am guaranteed to be healthy, so i will choose not to get it to protect my health'
The flaw here should be obvious, but unfortunately it's not, and our Herd Immunity is weakened, allowing previously effectively eliminated viruses to come back. My personal belief here is that, when these viruses DO start making a major comeback, there will be a combination of incredibly stupid 'I told you vaccines don't work, Polio is rising and you scientists said it was eliminated!' and 'This just adds to the evidence that the entire vaccine ploy was a conspiracy to...'
-Edit-
This guy:
Is going to fit perfectly into the above.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2010
- Messages
- 30,799
- Reaction score
- 7,619
"Safe"? Like, drinking water after it's been boiled and then cooled kind of "safe"?
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2009
- Messages
- 25,728
- Reaction score
- 1,378
Things aren't black and white though.
In theory, they are perfectly good and there would never be any corruption or abuse in any system. Pure science. No politics, no corruption, just pure science and a system that cares for the people first.
Unfortunately we live in a system of power and profits, so it is reasonable to take a critical view on such things. Doesn't mean vaccines are inherently bad, but it also doesn't mean people should be required to line up like cattle to get whatever the latest shot is that comes out like it's the latest iPhone. There is always some middle ground.
Once society accepts that governments can force inject the people then I will start investing in vaccine companies that have inside tracks with government agencies. With the way things are going, I probably should have already. We can expect there to be all sorts of new vaccines popping up for more lucrative contracts. As well as campaigns convincing people that 'the more the merrier'
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2005
- Messages
- 26,735
- Reaction score
- 8,467
thanks.
I went to the link and did some rough calculations. About 100,000 kids not vaccinated in LAUSD alone, probably 2-300K throughout california.
600+ measle outbreaks in all states, probably 200 in california, and not even fatal. I cant see the big deal about this. If parents decide not to vaccinate, who cares? It's primarily rich kids that arent vaccinating, and since when did we ever care about rich kids!!!
these numbers are nowhere near alarming TBH, nothing to be scared of.
All I know is that if you try to get a PBE, the school looks at you like you're unfit to raise a kid. Just happens that my kids current school has 0% PBE..... so I'm kind of oblivious that this PBE thing runs rampant at some schools, but really, why should we care. 600 cases in america is NOTHING.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Messages
- 2,218
- Reaction score
- 279
600 is a big deal when the disease was eliminated, and is a big deal to those affected because they have moron parents. I don't think anyone thinks the disease will run rampant across the US killing thousands.
The problem is that those numbers aren't static. Look at the number of infections in the previous years, and then the number of infected a decade before that. The number of infected rises, when it should be static and VERY low, as the number of people who don't vaccinate increases.
The issue is that PersonA not being vaccinated doesn't just effect PersonA, who will get sick or not based on their choice, but also PersonB who perhaps can't get vaccinated (too young or ill to be vaccinated, allegies, a variety of other reasons) but otherwise wouldn't be exposed to the risk if PersonA was vaccinated. PersonA also impacts Persons C-Z, who WERE vaccinated, but could potentially still become ill if brought into contact with someone already infected, and they can bring the disease to others as well.
Herd Immunity is how vaccines work. If your neighbour on either side of you won't contract something, you won't either, since you won't catch it from them. The more holes you make, the more people get sick.
Again, it's not just that X people contracted Measles (or any other disease which they shouldn't because we live in the First World), it's that X is growing which is concerning.
lets make it easy: Safer than not having a vaccination.
The fear is that the numbers of these people will grow, and this kind of outbreak will get worse and more common as less people are vaccinated.
The worst outcome would be if someone contracts one of the "dead" diseases outside of the USA and brings it back. Something like Polio or Diptheria.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2010
- Messages
- 30,799
- Reaction score
- 7,619
That would depend on a combination of the age and health factors of each individual, potential candidate, their locale, and the disease in question.
ah yes, the extreme outliers might not benifit, so why should everyone else?
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2010
- Messages
- 30,799
- Reaction score
- 7,619
Do you think that a person who opts out of vaccinating their child is as socially criminal as a person with an active, potentially deadly transmittable disease who refuses quarantine in order to mix with the population? Because if you do it would help me understand the motivation of the extremists within the pro-vax community.
