Differences between Russian and Japanese Judo?

Kohaku shiai being common doesn't mean they don't have weight class competition as well. As I pointed out above, all the national competitions (kids/universities/seniors) all exist in both weight class and no-weight-class formats.
You overstated for rhetorical effect and, this being the internet, I'd rather not see incorrect information stand unchallenged till it gets repeated as gospel fact 400 times. I'm not sure why you're taking it so personally.
To put it mildly, you just don't know what you are talking about.
Competitions here are normally held without weight classes and I know it, because I live here and compete since year 2000 :)
You are digging for exceptions, trying to present them as the norm.
And you are wrong
 
Competitions here are normally held without weight classes and I know it, because I live here and compete since year 2000 :)
Probably perfectly true, I don't claim to be an expert and I've never even been to Japan.
You are digging for exceptions, trying to present them as the norm.
No, I'm not saying anything about the norm, I'm just arguing with your original over-broad statement:
The only weight categories japanese use, are in international competitions.
 
Probably perfectly true, I don't claim to be an expert and I've never even been to Japan.
No, I'm not saying anything about the norm, I'm just arguing with your original over-broad statement:
Then you should keep attention to the fact, that its specifically mentiones in the tournament name "JOC rules tournament", which means international rules.
 
Its Olympic rules competition.
Its JOC (Olympic rules) competition, so its international rules.
Japanese compete without weight categories and the simple fact, that they state the ruleset as Olympic with weight categories, already shows that inner competitions are different.
Half of the competitions in the link you provided are open weight :)
Let's try this: try to find dan grading competitions with any category except dans.
Link to Kodokan event schedule for 2016:
http://kodokanjudoinstitute.org/en/schedule/tokyo/
Only dan and gender divisions.
All Japan championship is THE most important competition for japanese judokas and is held without weight categories.
The ones you state are minor toutnaments, which is obvious by the results- total of 30 competitors on average, some of them even less.
The national championship has attendace in the thousends.

There is a big difference between the national championship and other tournaments, using "All Japan" in their name.
 
You're arguing a bunch of things I never said? Or possibly some complicated version of the No True Scotsman is your aim? Is it so hard to say "Oh yeah, that was a bit too broad", you can still sign off with "And you're a pedantic loser" if you like?

Anyway, I'm out, sorry for the thread-jack everyone else.
 
You are
You're arguing a bunch of things I never said? Or possibly some complicated version of the No True Scotsman is your aim? Is it so hard to say "Oh yeah, that was a bit too broad", you can still sign off with "And you're a pedantic loser" if you like?

Anyway, I'm out, sorry for the thread-jack everyone else.
Fine :)
You are typical keyboard warrior- never been in Japan, never seen a competition here, have no idea about japanese judo and yet, you are claiming you know better by posting random google researches.
Feel free to continue- I'm typing from my phone while on the bullet train from Tokyo to Osaka.
When I reach my computer, I can upload my own videos from competitions, where me or my students go against people bellow or over their own weight in big Kodokan tournaments, together with national competition division lists to demonstrate my point.

I can also post official judo sites, stating color belt system in Japan, when in reality, the only system existing here is white belt- black belt.

You can keep reaching for straws.
 
You're arguing a bunch of things I never said? Or possibly some complicated version of the No True Scotsman is your aim? Is it so hard to say "Oh yeah, that was a bit too broad", you can still sign off with "And you're a pedantic loser" if you like?

Anyway, I'm out, sorry for the thread-jack everyone else.
Jesus Christ... will bjj guys/judo hobbyists... who've never done high level wrestling or Judo stop fucking using the "no true Scotsman" fallacy when the people who've done it..actually fucking try to tell you what goes on...

Ivanov had started a world champion combat wrestling championship...uses his name on sherdog...and is not bullshitting his accomplishments...and you're trying to tell him how it works...
 
Japanese are like empty jackets, using correct technique and fluid movements.

Russians just do crossfit and jerk you into the same trip 12 times in a row.

Great thread.
 
Japanese are like empty jackets, using correct technique and fluid movements.

Russians just do crossfit and jerk you into the same trip 12 times in a row.

Great thread.

Are those parodies of the arguments or do you actually believe that? Because I'd say those characterizations couldn't be more wrong.
 
I'd like to throw out that it's really a dumb denigration of Russian style Judo to say it's more power oriented than Japanese Judo. I don't really think that's the case. The gripping is focused more on breaking posture prior to the throw, but that actually makes the throw require less power in many cases than the sleeve + lapel version. I'm not a very strong person for my weight class, I could never generate the pull and posture break necessary to throw good people with a lapel and sleeve grip, but as soon as I started working more on getting belt grips and over the back grips I found I needed a lot less strength to control people and throw them. It's simply more mechanically efficient to keep someone's posture broken to be resting a lot of your bodyweight via an over the back belt grip on them than it is to do it by pulling them down by a single point of contact on their lapel. Lapel grips have other advantages, mainly flexibility in which throws you have available, but they're far from optimal compared to belt grips for big turning throws. People say that style is a power style because it requires less subtle kusuzhi once you have the grip, and that's true. But the reason your kuzushi can be less subtle is because your gripping is more efficient for transferring power and pulling off hip throws (or big reaps).

Even the pickups and ura nages you see Eastern Bloc players using are not really power moves in the sense that you have to have a ton of power to use them, it's not that hard to pick someone your own weight up if you use good technique, but it can't be done efficiently from a classical grip. The fact that uke feels so helpless once you lock in the strong belt grips doesn't mean it's a power move, it means it's an efficient means of controlling uke's balance. So the thing isn't power vs. no power, it's where you apply power. Russian style, you're using power to attain your dominating grip and then the throw is easy. Japanese style, you take a very standard grip but then the throws often require tremendous power to pull off unless you hit them perfectly.
Yeah my sensei says at his age and more than anything, due to an old injury he cannot harai goshi in a classic way so he uses a over the back grip to close the distance and use more of his body to execute the throw...
I trained with 2 russians in Canada and one was the typical super strong and explosive guy with good te guruma while the other more "japanese" style player , honestly I like both styles and try to get whatever works for me...
 
I think it's pretty clear this disagreement stems from a misunderstanding of the term "international competitions". Ivanov meant it as international rules competitions, pointy took it as literally international events.
 
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