Real broad question but could stur up a bunch of knowledge, after watching the cotto fight last night it is just ridiculous the power difference between the 2 fighters. every punch cotto threw that landed looked like it hurt compared to martinez's punches you can see they had no effect. why is this?
difference in power
- Thread starter Redtarget
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Cotto doesn't have much power comparatively to Martinez though, considering he's basically one or two weight class above his ideal weight. Martinez's positioning throughout the fight is shit, hence why he kept getting hit with Cotto's shots and took full brunt of it.
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So it seems like all anybody has to do for a reply now is sprinkle in lot of buzz word, footwork, positioning, head movement, weight transfer, centre line, and everybody just agrees and tells them how right they are.
What was wrong with his positioning Nuke? Did he have his shoes positioned on the wrong feet? Was his stool position not feng shui?
What was wrong with his positioning Nuke? Did he have his shoes positioned on the wrong feet? Was his stool position not feng shui?
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Why so hostile? Seriously. That what i thought happened with the way Martinez kept getting tag flushed in exchange, and most if not all those shots hurt him, while Cotto wasn't fazed at all, despite coming up in weight class.
Discipulus
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Specifically, Martinez had a hard time managing the distance against Cotto. He couldn't get his jab going until the 4th or 5th round. I think that's because Cotto, unlike most of Martinez's other orthodox opponents, actually used his jab to close the distance and line Martinez up for his shots.
Also... dat left hook. The hook, used well, is way more dangerous for the southpaw than the straight right. It's much harder to see coming, and it starts very close to the target, which gave Martinez a lot of trouble since he's used to southpaw vs orthodox fights taking place at a really long range. He also kept getting clubbed in the back of the head by it because he was constantly leaning forward.
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Good call with the left hook. Cotto got a hammer of a left hook, and he kept landing it throughout the fight.
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My bad. Didn't mean it to sound like that, and I wasn't really poking at you specifically. It would just be nice to start seeing a bit more substance on these pages.
Discipulus
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I agree with you. It took me a long time to understand what "positioning" means, and it would make this forum a more educational and welcoming environment for those of us who do understand it to some degree to explain why someone was positioned well, or poorly.
Babba
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martinez got exploited for his habit to lean forward, he was physically slow as fuck on his legs, having his hands at waist level standing squared rolling from shoulder to shouder trying to potshot while cotto is throwing full on 3-4 punch combinations, a lot of them landing on the back of the ear, back of the head ( see leaning forward ). he got away with this before because of reflex and speed, and having a volume to detter you from just waking him down. none of that was present...
cotto sat down into his stance, held his guard tight, punched from that guard with quick powerful combinations. it was "basic boxing" done right.
cotto sat down into his stance, held his guard tight, punched from that guard with quick powerful combinations. it was "basic boxing" done right.
Try reading the fucking heavies. In any given thread about x fighter's striking, you'll have at least 10 posts saying "distance and timing" or "he has good footwork" or some bullshit. It's stupid because if I say whoever is good because of whatever random buzzwords then I'm probably right, but I still don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Those words mean everything so without context they mean nothing.
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It wasn't only power but Martinez (lack of) defence, shaky chin and shot knees as well. But I mean thee have been many fights with a bigger difference in power between 2 fights Martinez even with shot knees isn't featherfisted.
Malignaggi vs Porter or Malignaggi vs any puncher was a much bigger difference in power Pauli just had the chin to take the power up until his last fight
Malignaggi vs Porter or Malignaggi vs any puncher was a much bigger difference in power Pauli just had the chin to take the power up until his last fight
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There was nothing about positioning or any of that shit in the fight. Martinez should have never been in the ring. Muhfucker couldn't even stand on his own two feet, much less position himself in anyway.
Cotto carried him or he would have been out in the first.
Cotto carried him or he would have been out in the first.
With all his flaws, Martinez was clearly injured going into this fight.
You just see that he couldn't move at all - he would just do a stepping stuff instead of his normal bouncy footwork. The injuries also affected his punching.
You just see that he couldn't move at all - he would just do a stepping stuff instead of his normal bouncy footwork. The injuries also affected his punching.
Discipulus
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People are obviously quick to assume that Martinez was injured, but perhaps the reason his legs looked shaky was that, you know, Cotto blasted him with a huge left hook a minute into the fight. I doubt any knee can return to full potential after a torn meniscus surgery, but Martinez started to look like his old self in rounds 4-6, before Cotto adapted to his adaptations and started to knock him around again.
This is just one of the few instances I can think of where one fighter blasted the other and, when that guy started wobbling around like a newborn calf, everyboy said, "Oh, his knees..."
How about, "Oh, that hook!"
This is just one of the few instances I can think of where one fighter blasted the other and, when that guy started wobbling around like a newborn calf, everyboy said, "Oh, his knees..."
How about, "Oh, that hook!"
Cotto looked great, IMO. He has an amazing variety of tricks to close the distance and pressure the opponent. And ,in general, he is very well rounded guy who can fight in a lot of different ways.
But, I still think that in the middle rounds (and even before the knockdown in the first round) Martinez's movement is clearly off. From his first steps in the ring it looks like something is wrong.
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I definitely think he was injured, he was keeping it very straight and moving off his rear leg. Looked like he had a wooden leg, i think it got worse in the first because he got hit so hard he was trying to survive insted of nursing it.
Cotto's hook seemed to be the lead hand equivalent to and overhand. He worked his lead foot on the outside of Martinez, but when Martinez went to the put his lead foot outside he'd step his foot on the inside and loop over the top and down. Conventional wisdom would say a jab beats a looping hook, but maybe it was the leaning forward that Cotto and Roach saw.
Cotto's hook seemed to be the lead hand equivalent to and overhand. He worked his lead foot on the outside of Martinez, but when Martinez went to the put his lead foot outside he'd step his foot on the inside and loop over the top and down. Conventional wisdom would say a jab beats a looping hook, but maybe it was the leaning forward that Cotto and Roach saw.
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I also think Martinez knees were shot going into the fight. It was pretty obvious right at the beginning of the fight. He simply wasn't moving like his usually self at all throughout the fight. He wasn't elusive, couldn't move around well and acquire better position and couldn't put any real mustard into most of his shots. you knew after the first round that there was no way Martinez was going to win this fight. Even when Martinez looked like he was moving better by the middle rounds, he wasn't moving that much better.
I am hoping he eventually fully recovers but i wouldn't be surprised at all if he announced his retirement.
I am hoping he eventually fully recovers but i wouldn't be surprised at all if he announced his retirement.
thehairyfairy
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Agreed, so much word regurgitation because a certain respected member emphasises the importance of those things. People feel every single bit of analysis has to use those keywords or it's null and void.
You'll find this is true all over the place. From MMA journalists to random guys in the heavies, buzz words are the shortcut to sounding smart without substance.
