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Diet question...

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by glennpendlay, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. glennpendlay

    glennpendlay Yellow Belt

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    I am pretty set in my ways as far as the way that I prefer the athletes that I coach to eat. Doesnt mean I wont listen to something new, but I would have to be convinced... And in fact, because I dont have much contact with the "fitness" and bodybuilding world, sometimes take it for granted that most people would agree with me. I was surprised to get into a fairly heated "discussion" with a woman who considers herself something of a nutrition "expert" for fitness on another website.

    Debate here...

    Muscle Dog

    This exchange got me to wondering... how widespread are the ideas that I adhere to? Am I in the majority or the minority?

    Which camp most MMA guys fall into.

    IMO, there are 3 major diet camps when it comes to athletes...

    1. This is the we train damn hard and dont put on bodyfat eating 3 double whoppers at BK, eat as much as we damn well want of whatever food we damn well want camp.

    2. These are the guys who are not scared of fat, but try to eat "whole" and unprocessed foods. Many take cues from the "Paleo" crowd. Lots of eggs and meat. Lots of vegatables. Maybe make sure you get your salmon and Omega-3's, but not afraid of a slice of butter. Usually stay away from sugar and starchy and "processed" food. Try to emphasise veggies over fruit.

    3. The food pyramid crowd. Fat is bad, plenty of complex carbs. Loves whole grain bread. Red meat in very small amounts, always buys the leanest cuts. Usually big chicken eaters. More likely to have orange juice for breakfast than milk, and its skim milk when they do drink it.

    I am pretty squarely in the #2 camp. I know a lot of successful athletes are in the #1 camp. Bodybuilders and "fitness" folks are often in the #3 camp. Women seem to be more likely to be in the #3 camp.

    I have run across a number of women, more than a few actually, who will tell you that they train so very hard, then tell you that they are eating egg whites with the yolks out to say within 1500 calories a day. This does not compute for me.

    But, back to the topic at hand, I am interersted in what the prevailing wisdom is in MMA. Burger King, Paleo, or Food Pyramid?
     
  2. mmafreedom

    mmafreedom Purple Belt

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    For high performance atheletes, the likes of which have very intense bursts of anaerobic work *i.e. exchanging strikes in the pocket, shooting for a takedown, scrambling*, I think you want high protein, moderate-high carb and slightly lower fats (making sure you get your essential fatty acids). It is all relative to what the person's goals are though, I presume.
     
  3. XTrainer

    XTrainer Red Belt

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    (My post from the S&C thread)

     
  4. cooks1

    cooks1 No matter where you go-there you are Platinum Member

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    Well, I would say most people in the D & S forum would be #2 as well. With the occasional voice of informed dissent, malinformed troller, or uneducated newcomer.

    I would have to say however, that the breakfast you suggested was a shitload of fat and calories. By my reckoning that is slightly north of 1000 calories, with around 60 grams of fat. I hope your folks are working their ass off.
     
  5. KILL KILL

    KILL KILL Gold Belt

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    I'm a #2. But I've been out of competition for a while. Once I go back in a month or so, so will my carbohydrate intake.
     
  6. Mooney

    Mooney Blue Belt

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    I would call myself a #2, though on training days (monday to thursday) I tend to eat quite alot of fruit and nuts, as well as allowing milk. The weekends are pretty low carb, generally only coming from veggies, with the odd piece of dark chocolate or a handfull of macadamias.
     
  7. glennpendlay

    glennpendlay Yellow Belt

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    They are, and, honestly, the single biggest problem is maintaining bodyweight. With a couple of them, they are still losing bodyweight at 5,000 to 6,000 calories a day. Its still exreemely hard to not lose weight without going to burger king or pizza hut.
     
  8. Searcher

    Searcher Yellow Belt

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    The guys I lift with along with myself try to concentrate on volume first, then quality second. So if I had to chose between ice cream and burgers or nothing, I'd choose ice cream and burgers. We buy as many veggies and as much meat as we can, then have cereal, or some other cheap carb we can find, I even go with pizza or soda sometimes.

    To the guy who thinks 1000 kcal a meal is too much, you are very mistaken. at a measily 195lbs, I can eat 3-4 pb&j sandwitches, a long with some glasses of milk and whatever other treat or candybar floats my way. As far as meat, half a pound is nothing. Especially if its something tasty like steak, I'd easily down a pound or two along with some broccoli. 3-5meals of this. Another meal is two packs of ramen and a .5lb-1lb of boneless chicken breast.
     
  9. Envy

    Envy Silver Belt

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    I think all 3 of those groups are bunk.

    I don't think anyone here needs to be told about the ridiculousness of the food pyramid's limits of fats and meat. But, the pendulum swings back into absurdity with the carbophobia present in group 2, or the paleo crowd. Completely eschewing oats, some tubers, grains, beans, some fruits and all dairy is about as ridiculous as ditching red meat, nuts, and healthy fats.
     
  10. IDRISCKY

    IDRISCKY Purple Belt

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    Explain how? Simply because one can have a healthy diet including these things, they should? Does it mean they can't have a healthy diet without these things? Because they choose not to eat these things doesn't make them scared of carbohydrates either. It's simply attempting to make better food choices.

    Would you pick 100 grams of table sugar over 100 grams of oats as a healthy option? I doubt so. So why is picking 100 grams of sweet potato over 100 grams of oats such a crazy, ridiculous choice?

    I knew Glenn was going to, unintentionally, open a can of worms when he mentioned paleo.
     
  11. Envy

    Envy Silver Belt

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    Likewise can you explain how people can't have a healthy diet if they include these things? Can you explain why not eating these is a better choice?

    Many people do include a large amount sugar post-workout. Why is choosing oats over sweet potato such a crazy, ridiculous choice?

    Seriously, there are reams and reams of scientific studies showing the benefits of whole grains which are ignored by the Paleo crowd.

    Here's Lyle McDonald's rant on Paleo:
     
  12. IDRISCKY

    IDRISCKY Purple Belt

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    All you did was ask the question I asked you in turn. I never said it was a crazy, ridiculous choice and I never said anyone can't have a healthy diet if they include them.
     
  13. Blackice

    Blackice Orange Belt

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    That rant by Lyle McDonald is stupid anyway, because I don't hear a lot of people advocating the paleo "lifestyle", I hear them advocating a paleo diet. So to go and tell paleo people to build a hut, go lift antelopes etc etc or stfu is retarded. people are free to pick and choose the things they want from different ways of living and dieting anyway. It's not an all or nothing deal for almost anything in life. There's that thing called middle ground that a lot of people seem to ignore.
     
  14. millasur

    millasur Blue Belt

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    I started reading but then the feeling of wanting to choke her on her egg whites became too great. In answer to your question, definitely 2.
     
  15. numberthirtytwo

    numberthirtytwo Orange Belt

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    I only began to read the thread but a couple things. 1) different people have different goals. Powerlifters who don't care about having (or actually want) 20% bodyfat will be different than chicks who want to look good naked. Why the hate? Do you guys really want the girls you date to eat the same as a powerlifter?

    So for your goals what you eat might be fine. But here;s the other thing: Yeah saturated fat isn't necessarily bad, eating fat is good for you, and so on, but from what I saw from the thread you do eat like shit. Combining all that all that with bread, hash browns, etc. - basically you're eating high fat with lots of grains, starches and processed foods. The standard american diet, maybe with less sugar. That's a shitty diet. It might make you huge but it's not what i would call a recipe for longevity. Just because fat isn't bad for you doesn't mean nothing is.

    I agree with her that these are fantastic examples of a standard shitty american diet breakfast:
     
  16. Blackice

    Blackice Orange Belt

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    The only things I see wrong on that list is the bread, but you can get decent bread like sourdough or ezeikiel bread, the hash browns which you can make from left over boiled or steamed sweet potato, and I'm not a sausage person on the whole, but there's nothing wrong with REAL hash browns and sausage, whole eggs, bacon or butter, ham or turkey with breakfast. Maybe if you ate that entire list at one sitting yeah, but on the whole..I wouldn't say that's a shitty breakfast. The cheese is fine too. it's easy enough to make the non-mcdonald's version. A lot of people here eat like a half pound of bacon or more at breakfast. I eat 1/4 pound. Buttered bread once in awhile even if it's white isn't going to kill you. However...I do realize that a lot of Americans AND Canadians eat ready cook bacon or the lie that is Lilydale Daystarters, boxed hashbrowns and not the best breakfast sausage in the world. I'm just not sure if you're talking about ONLY the overly processed shit or butter, bacon sausage etc in general at breakfast.
     
  17. Oblivian

    Oblivian Aging Platinum Member

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    I think most people look at Paleo as inherently saying "grains are bad".
     
  18. Oblivian

    Oblivian Aging Platinum Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. IDRISCKY

    IDRISCKY Purple Belt

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    That depends on your definition of bad.

    Do I eat grains? No. Besides their carb load, there are things in grains I personally want to avoid. But that in no way means I'm telling anyone that grains are going to flat out kill them and everyone should right out give them up right now.

    But like I've said quite a few times in several threads. I find it strange how everyone bashes paleo without mentioning how it's unhealthy or bad for you nutritionally. IE how is oatmeal over table sugar normal and accepted. But if someon picks vegetables or sweetpotstoes over oatmeal it odd enough to be likened to giving up meat and a crazy concept.
     
  20. Oblivian

    Oblivian Aging Platinum Member

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    Whenever a diet excludes something specifically, most people take that as to mean "this should should be avoided". Do you agree with that?
     

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