Diet question...

[miaou]

When it comes to MMA athletes, I can only guess that there are still people from all three camps. It really just depends on personal knowledge and how much one chooses to care.

I think the group 3, supporting the conventional 80's food pyramid, is on a slow but gradual decline in all sports. MMA is no different.

Like PH mentioned, GSP was "famously" on group no1 (where he would eat subway sandwiches and McDonalds hamburgers between training sessions) and at some point where he already reached an elite level of performance he decided that optimizing/finetuning his diet would help him further improve.

I would agree that most educated fighters tend to gravitate a bit more towards the group 2, but don't forget that someone might be a combination of groups. Someone can take in a lot of animal proteins, veggies and "healthy fats" (which includes saturated fats like milk, butter and egg yokes), and, because of the type of his training requiring a lot of glucose, he can also eat extra grains and fruit. Or he can make that the core of his diet but also eat dirty according to which phase of his training he's in.


Myself, I am group 2 with some extra fruit (just because I like them), and vary my grain intake according to the types/levels of exercise, starting from zero grain in times I take a complete break from training.

 

[ssdd]

Im mostly group 2 but I dont mind fruits and some burger king. I am not an "advanced" athlete btw, barely scratching intermediate but I do train kickboxing and bjj 3 days a week and lift or condition the other days.

 

[glennpendlay]

I think the group 3, supporting the conventional 80's food pyramid, is on a slow but gradual decline in all sports. MMA is no different.

And this is the basis of my curiosity about diet and MMA. There is no doubt that the idea of complex carbs being king and fat being the enemy is slowly being beaten down in the world at large.

In some sports that idea has been totally eradicated already, in some it is still hanging on. I predict womens fitness competitors will be the last to go. I was just wondering where MMA was at this time.

 

[speedtech]

I'm in camp #1, eat what I want when I want, although if I was a professional athlete then I think I would take my nutrition alot more seriously

 

[ronin0352]

I didn't read the whole thread, but she looks pretty silly by her own contradictions. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that she's saying one thing while in the back of her mind she believes another. Damn the dogma.

 

[glennpendlay]

I didn't read the whole thread, but she looks pretty silly by her own contradictions. I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that she's saying one thing while in the back of her mind she believes another. Damn the dogma.

Its amazing how many women will profess to believe that a moderate amount of fat is healthy, but then still use "Pam" non-fat spray on a non-stick pan to saute veggies instead of just using some olive oil, will seperate the yolk from the egg white, and will just basically refuse to eat any amount of fat... all the while nodding their head yes when you are talking about a balanced diet...

 

[Indivdude]

Based on her picture I've decided that she is right and you are wrong.

I think this settles it though.

 

[VoodooPlata]

I think the question also boils down a bit to nationality and culture. Brazilians, for example, no matter what else they eat they sure love their acai, which is a berry that has been shown in clinical studies to actually have moderate amounts of antioxidants and isn't much better for you than, say, cranberry. Seeing as brazilians are quite numerous in professional MMA i would say that this probably carries over a bit to the "MMA crowd" - who hasn't seen the "Bony Acai" sponsorships in the UFC for example? I was on my way to bying some dried acai until i read up on it and found that it actually isn't that great - certainly not worth shipping over the atlantic to Europe.

In Sweden, where i live, you would be hard pressed to find any athlete of any sport who doesn't eat chicken every day regardless of their other nutritional philosophies - this might be the same in the US, but my impression (being an outsider) is that americans hold red meat in higher esteem than we do here. The japanese eat more fish than most other nations, so i would believe that Sakuraba and Minowaman have strict orders on how much and what types of seafood to consume during training.

Maybe your question is only directed at the american MMA crowd? Then i got nothing

 

[glennpendlay]

I think the question also boils down a bit to nationality and culture. Brazilians, for example, no matter what else they eat they sure love their acai, which is a berry that has been shown in clinical studies to actually have moderate amounts of antioxidants and isn't much better for you than, say, cranberry. Seeing as brazilians are quite numerous in professional MMA i would say that this probably carries over a bit to the "MMA crowd" - who hasn't seen the "Bony Acai" sponsorships in the UFC for example? I was on my way to bying some dried acai until i read up on it and found that it actually isn't that great - certainly not worth shipping over the atlantic to Europe.

In Sweden, where i live, you would be hard pressed to find any athlete of any sport who doesn't eat chicken every day regardless of their other nutritional philosophies - this might be the same in the US, but my impression (being an outsider) is that americans hold red meat in higher esteem than we do here. The japanese eat more fish than most other nations, so i would believe that Sakuraba and Minowaman have strict orders on how much and what types of seafood to consume during training.

Maybe your question is only directed at the american MMA crowd? Then i got nothing

This is an interesting observation. I travel a lot to international weightlifting competitions. Here is what I notice in Europe. The lifters there eat mostly meat and vegetables. Literally multiple plates full of things like slices of tomatoes and cucumbers. LOTS of veggies. And a variety of meats, beef, mutton, goat, horse, and some chicken along with things like goose a and duck. Reindeer in norther europe.

In south america... red meat is more rare. chicken is the norm, and, rice is eaten fairly often. But, the emphasis on veggies remains the same.

There are a couple of constants. One is that most of the food is unprocessed. Two is that US athletes tend to lose weight in either environment. We are so used to processed food, that our palates are not agreeable to either scenario.

Edit: when I was in Bulgaria last month, I ate chicken feet with the Japanese team, GROSS!!! those asians eat some weird stuff...

Edit 2: The most healthy diet I have ever seen was from Justin Brimhall, who was from Turkey. When he ate chicken wings, there would be only a few sharp shards of bone left. He literally gnawed the gristle off the bone, broke the bones in half, and sucked the marrow out. He ate everything and anything, but preferred certain things... like large amounts of vegatables, plates and plates of vegatables, then fairly fatty meat. Like ribs. but again, when I fixed him ribs, there was nothing left for the dogs except for shards. he gnawed the gristle off, broke the bones, and sucked the marrow out. He left nothing. He learned to eat this way from his mother, I guess, as his father was American.

It has stuck me that this is probably pretty healthy. Being ravenous for any type of veggie, and eating anything that has to be killed like it is the last thing you will ever kill, eating ALL of it...

Edit 3: Having mentioned Justin, I have to discuss his dog. He had an Anatolian shephard, google it if you dont know what it is. Over a period of 2-3 years, it got loose here and there from the backyard, and, systematically killed every other dog and cat in the neighborhood. My dog Mack is a 105lb Pit. At 105lbs, he is lean enough to see the striations in his ass when he walks. He is all red, including his nose, but with yellow eyes. If he had a wallet, it would say BAD MOTHERFUCKER on it. But I will tell you this, I would do well to keep Mack away from that damn Anatolian. Justins dog was a god damned fiend. Everyone should be aware if there is an Anatolian near you. If there is, keep your dogs away from them. They are, pretty much, the baddest of the bad. And Justins Anatolian, was, I think, the baddest of the baddest of the bad.

 

[miaou]

Edit: when I was in Bulgaria last month, I ate chicken feet with the Japanese team, GROSS!!! those asians eat some weird stuff...

When I was living in Thailand, I spent the most part of my first year in a small border village where no one spoke any english. First time I ever went out with a girl for dinner I let her do the ordering (funny times, I still hardly spoke a word thai and had to come up with super-weird gestures to communicate "order whatever you want, I don't care"), and had no idea what to expect. Chicken feet was one of the dishes, and our reactions couldn't have been different. I was like "REALLY??" and she acted like those were "teh delicious"!

I kind of gave those a half-assed try (it was still my early days in thailand, since then I've tried a lot worse things), just chewing off a bit of a skin-like thing that surrounded the feet. The girl definitely didn't mind she could have those all to herself!

I've since read that those are actually good for you, as they're full of collagen and gelatin. You might want to have a look at this article.

 

[glennpendlay]

When I was living in Thailand, I spent the most part of my first year in a small border village where no one spoke any english. First time I ever went out with a girl for dinner I let her do the ordering (funny times, I still hardly spoke a word thai and had to come up with super-weird gestures to communicate "order whatever you want, I don't care"), and had no idea what to expect. Chicken feet was one of the dishes, and our reactions couldn't have been different. I was like "REALLY??" and she acted like those were "teh delicious"!

I kind of gave those a half-assed try (it was still my early days in thailand, since then I've tried a lot worse things), just chewing off a bit of a skin-like thing that surrounded the feet. The girl definitely didn't mind she could have those all to herself!

I've since read that those are actually good for you, as they're full of collagen and gelatin. You might want to have a look at this article.

Good article, and that was why I gave the example of Justin Brimhall as an extremely healthy way to eat. Odd how we are finding that some of the "old" ways of doing things has health benefits.

Donny Shankle is from New Orleans, and so of course makes gumbo, his mother made it, and I assume her mother made it. Its an old recipe in their family. They make it with the bones in. You pick the chicken bones out when you eat it. When my mother made chicken noodle soup, she basically made it with a whole chicken, let it in the crock pot till you could just pick the clean bones out...

And, this is why I have always thought that brisket was particularly good for athletes. All that connective tissue is what makes it a TERRIBLE cut of meat if cooked normally. But after 12 hours, all that broken down connective tissue is what makes it so moist and tender and taste so damn good.

 

[glennpendlay]

I think this settles it though.

The girl does look pretty good, doesnt she? Much prettier than I am. I doubt I would be enjoying talking to her if she wasn't a looker.

But the hilarity on that thread knows no bounds... after all this argument, she admits that though she is a full grown adult and deadlifts 115lbs for sets of 15, she DOES NOT WANT to add strength or muscle. Why would a person weight train if they specifically do not want to add strength or muscle????? And how do you reason with a person who is lifting weights with the express purpose of NOT gaining strength or muscle?

Muscle Dog

There is something about argueing with a beautiful but vacuous woman...

 

[Origins]

Good article, and that was why I gave the example of Justin Brimhall as an extremely healthy way to eat. Odd how we are finding that some of the "old" ways of doing things has health benefits.

Donny Shankle is from New Orleans, and so of course makes gumbo, his mother made it, and I assume her mother made it. Its an old recipe in their family. They make it with the bones in. You pick the chicken bones out when you eat it. When my mother made chicken noodle soup, she basically made it with a whole chicken, let it in the crock pot till you could just pick the clean bones out...

And, this is why I have always thought that brisket was particularly good for athletes. All that connective tissue is what makes it a TERRIBLE cut of meat if cooked normally. But after 12 hours, all that broken down connective tissue is what makes it so moist and tender and taste so damn good.

Brisket can be absolutely delicious if you cook it right. My mother's side of the family is all from Texas and they know how to barbecue. I have smoked quite a few of them myself.

 

[PWR1982]

I don't think you should argue with people that write like fucking retards.

Concerning diet... I don't really care. There's guys like solkanar at the d&s that eat raw meat and eggs only, so I just don't know what to think - because of this I just eat what my common sense tells me is good.

I think everyone knows what's healthy and what's not, if you want better results, you eat "healthy" food. If you want to loose weight, you eat less, if you want to gain weight, you eat more. If you were to ask me what ideal diet would be, it would be eating at a good greek/lebanese/mediterranean restaurant all the time, because it tastes fucking awesome - and I believe that food that tastes awesome, is healthy for you. But that's just me, there might be people out there that actually really LIKE the food at mcdonalds - me, I only eat there if I'm too lazy to make myself food, which would taste much better.

 

[glennpendlay]

I think everyone knows what's healthy and what's not, if you want better results, you eat "healthy" food. If you want to loose weight, you eat less, if you want to gain weight, you eat more. If you were to ask me what ideal diet would be, it would be eating at a good greek/lebanese/mediterranean restaurant all the time, because it tastes fucking awesome - and I believe that food that tastes awesome, is healthy for you.

I think you might be onto something there... In fact, I think that is the best post in this whole thread.

 

[glennpendlay]

Brisket can be absolutely delicious if you cook it right. My mother's side of the family is all from Texas and they know how to barbecue. I have smoked quite a few of them myself.

Ever since I moved to California about 8 months ago, I have made it my mission to introduce these liberal communist hippies to the magic that is Texas Brisket!!!!

I have met with some success. I recently had the millionare president of a .com, who once told me that his favorite things were sushi and pizza with pesto sauce, and who previously "didnt believe in red meat" ask me when I was going to bring another brisket to the gym. I am fighting the good fight...

 

[Origins]

Ever since I moved to California about 8 months ago, I have made it my mission to introduce these liberal communist hippies to the magic that is Texas Brisket!!!!

I have met with some success. I recently had the millionare president of a .com, who once told me that his favorite things were sushi and pizza with pesto sauce, and who previously "didnt believe in red meat" ask me when I was going to bring another brisket to the gym. I am fighting the good fight...

Hahaha keep up the good work.

@PWR I just wish that I thought spinach was delicious. Unfortunately, I don't have much of a natural taste for most vegetables. I have to make myself eat them most of the time.

 

[DevilMMA]

What I am wondering which camp most MMA guys fall into.

IMO, there are 3 major diet camps when it comes to athletes...

1. This is the we train damn hard and dont put on bodyfat eating 3 double whoppers at BK, eat as much as we damn well want of whatever food we damn well want camp.

2. These are the guys who are not scared of fat, but try to eat "whole" and unprocessed foods. Many take cues from the "Paleo" crowd. Lots of eggs and meat. Lots of vegatables. Maybe make sure you get your salmon and Omega-3's, but not afraid of a slice of butter. Usually stay away from sugar and starchy and "processed" food. Try to emphasise veggies over fruit.

3. The food pyramid crowd. Fat is bad, plenty of complex carbs. Loves whole grain bread. Red meat in very small amounts, always buys the leanest cuts. Usually big chicken eaters. More likely to have orange juice for breakfast than milk, and its skim milk when they do drink it.

I am pretty squarely in the #2 camp. I know a lot of successful athletes are in the #1 camp. Bodybuilders and "fitness" folks are often in the #3 camp. Women are VERY likely to be in the #3 camp.

I have run across a number of women, more than a few actually, who will tell you that they train so very hard, then tell you that they are eating egg whites with the yolks out to say within 1500 calories a day. This does not compute for me.

But, back to the topic at hand, I am interersted in what the prevailing wisdom is in MMA. Burger King, Paleo, or Food Pyramid?

Diet is a real crazy one IMO.....

I know a pro rugby league player who is on 6500 cals a day and that is really quite difficult to do eating totally clean.

There is no doubt in my mind overall that clean food is better food. BUT that doesnt mean that am Im anti-fat.... FAR FROM IT. I do subscribe to a lot of evolutionary theory regarding fat in diets, a lot of the fat found in nature is actually very healthy (Olive oil, nuts, salmon, seeds, eggs... etc) and this I think can be eaten in resonable quantity. All the trans fat stuff is shite though.... it has no benefits to a persons diet IMO.

Red meat..... the problem here is that modern farming has fucked up red meat (via the cow). If you go back about 60 years the red meat was a lot healthier since the cow itself lead a much healthier lifestyle, instead of todays version that does fuck all for the most of the time and eats food that it isnt suited for. Wherever possible I try and eat steak from grass fed cow or if that isnt possible I do eat the extra lean mince. If I could afford to eat game a lot (eg Bambi, rabbit, boar) Id eat it every day...... this stuff ranks up alongside salmon and whole egg as the best protein around.

I would say I do go along with most of what the Paleo diet says but I dont differentiate between fruit and veg and I think potatoes and rice are AOK due to their natural status.

 

[Dafreeclinic]

Diet is a real crazy one IMO.....

I know a pro rugby league player who is on 6500 cals a day and that is really quite difficult to do eating totally clean.

There is no doubt in my mind overall that clean food is better food. BUT that doesnt mean that am Im anti-fat.... FAR FROM IT. I do subscribe to a lot of evolutionary theory regarding fat in diets, a lot of the fat found in nature is actually very healthy (Olive oil, nuts, salmon, seeds, eggs... etc) and this I think can be eaten in resonable quantity. All the trans fat stuff is shite though.... it has no benefits to a persons diet IMO.

Red meat..... the problem here is that modern farming has fucked up red meat (via the cow). If you go back about 60 years the red meat was a lot healthier since the cow itself lead a much healthier lifestyle, instead of todays version that does fuck all for the most of the time and eats food that it isnt suited for. Wherever possible I try and eat steak from grass fed cow or if that isnt possible I do eat the extra lean mince. If I could afford to eat game a lot (eg Bambi, rabbit, boar) Id eat it every day...... this stuff ranks up alongside salmon and whole egg as the best protein around.

I would say I do go along with most of what the Paleo diet says but I dont differentiate between fruit and veg and I think potatoes and rice are AOK due to their natural status.

That gets close to circular reasoning saying things that eat healthy are healthy for you.

 

[Tosa]

That gets close to circular reasoning saying things that eat healthy are healthy for you.

I don't think so.

I think it's a very good point, and often overlooked...paying attention to things like where your food comes from, how far it was shipped, how it was grown, whether it's processed (and if so, how) can make a really big difference, regardless of what kind of diet you follow.

For example, an organic grass fed cow that gets fresh air and exercise is going to have a much better fat profile, and far fewer stress hormones, and won't be full of antibiotics, growth hormone or anything else, than your typical factory farmed meat.

Likewise with fruits and vegetables many of the beneficial compounds in them, like antioxidants are developed as a response to certain stresses, like insects, and are produced in far smaller amounts when pesticides or insecticides are used, especially in large amounts. Plus there's the matter of what amount of those pesticides/insectcides end up in the fruits and vegetables.

Or if you're eating a fruit or vegetable that was picked before it was ripe, then shipped hundreds of miles, and then ripened by keeping it's storage space full of ethylene...it's not going to have nearly as a good a nutrient profile as if you ate the same thing ripe, and freshy picked.