Diet question...

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by glennpendlay, Aug 10, 2010.

  1. glennpendlay Yellow Belt

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    I know the diet I prefer the strength athletes I coach follow. I know what experience has shown me works best for this group. I recently got into an argument with a woman who supposes she is sort of an "expert" on diet and totally disagrees with me...

    Argument here

    Muscle Dog

    I am curious as to where most MMA guys come down on this debate? I have never really looked into the type of diet generally favored in the combat sports, and would find it interesting to know...
     
  2. miaou barely keeping it together

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    Are you seriously asking for a second opinion on that "debate"?

    That girl was just trying to get some attention. All those question marks and exclamation marks and different size fonts and everything. And she didn't even make any specific points ...at all.

    Her point at first was that it was "unhealthy", then she conceded those ingredients are healthy but "all together in one meal? Come ON!" (*says that in fake girly voice*), then she went on to argue that this diet isn't good because "NOT everyone is an oly-lifter" and "there are many people that are trying to loose weight and lean up". Needless to say, none of the above makes any sense.

    She looks quite cute though, so that makes up for it! Hit it! ;)
     
  3. Origins Blue Belt

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    Just skimming through that thread, I can tell you 2 things:

    1. That woman has no experience coaching or being an advanced strength trainee of any kind.

    2. She has very poor grammar and spelling. (OMG!!!11!!1!!)
     
  4. glennpendlay Yellow Belt

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    What I am wondering which camp most MMA guys fall into.

    IMO, there are 3 major diet camps when it comes to athletes...

    1. This is the we train damn hard and dont put on bodyfat eating 3 double whoppers at BK, eat as much as we damn well want of whatever food we damn well want camp.

    2. These are the guys who are not scared of fat, but try to eat "whole" and unprocessed foods. Many take cues from the "Paleo" crowd. Lots of eggs and meat. Lots of vegatables. Maybe make sure you get your salmon and Omega-3's, but not afraid of a slice of butter. Usually stay away from sugar and starchy and "processed" food. Try to emphasise veggies over fruit.

    3. The food pyramid crowd. Fat is bad, plenty of complex carbs. Loves whole grain bread. Red meat in very small amounts, always buys the leanest cuts. Usually big chicken eaters. More likely to have orange juice for breakfast than milk, and its skim milk when they do drink it.

    I am pretty squarely in the #2 camp. I know a lot of successful athletes are in the #1 camp. Bodybuilders and "fitness" folks are often in the #3 camp. Women are VERY likely to be in the #3 camp.

    I have run across a number of women, more than a few actually, who will tell you that they train so very hard, then tell you that they are eating egg whites with the yolks out to say within 1500 calories a day. This does not compute for me.

    But, back to the topic at hand, I am interersted in what the prevailing wisdom is in MMA. Burger King, Paleo, or Food Pyramid?
     
  5. TrainingAdict Orange Belt

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    Group 2 for MMAers.


    When I used to train 5-6 days a week MMA, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to keep going on a group 3 diet. Not enough energy.

    That sounds more like the stuff you find in bodybuilding magazines.


    I read this biographical kind of book by Tim Greene, an ex NFL player. He said he kept himself in group 2 kind of diets but frequently saw tons of his teammates indulging in group 1 foods and still having no problem competing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
  6. glennpendlay Yellow Belt

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    I think she would probably feint (OMG!!!) if she spent time at the cafeteria at the Olympic Training Center and saw what real athletes actually eat.

    I would like to see her max out on the squat... to legal depth. She is lean, true, but id like to see what kind of strength she has after weight training 4-5 days a week for a few years.
     
  7. glennpendlay Yellow Belt

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    Are you speaking for yourself, or do you think this represents MMA as a whole?
     
  8. Origins Blue Belt

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    Although I am not a mixed-martial artist, I would fall in the #2 category.
     
  9. PowerHungry Oh yeah!

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    I don't train MMA. I did some jujitsu but would hardly consider myself in that group.

    However, personally, I fall somewhere between 1 and 2 the majority of the time lately. I use to be squarely in three. I'm sure when I want to lean out some of my newly gained fat I'll go back to a mixture of two-three.
     
  10. PowerHungry Oh yeah!

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    Here's a T-Nation article I like where it interview Berardi and talks about some of his work with GSP.

    T NATION | Issue 629
     
  11. TrainingAdict Orange Belt

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    Myself mostly.

    When I used to go to the gym to purely box, I'd rather have type 3 kinds of foods in my belly than the other groups. I need to have a semi light belly to be able to move around quickly.

    And when I was going there to grapple, I'd rather have group 1-2 foods in my belly. Something about this group of food that lets you last a long time on the mat / in the weightlifting gym.
     
  12. DEVILsSON Black Belt

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    Glenn it seems as though you both at least partially misrepresented each others positions which is not fair to either of you. She's clearly in favor of whole eggs and most of the foods you listed. The biggest concern for her is lack of moderation in your food selection in terms of macro/micro nutrients.

    If I had to pick a side I would probably side with you but only because she's fairly ignorant regarding nutrition for elite sports performance. This lady has a hard time understanding that getting calorie dense foods is a necessicity for elite athletes and that eating 1500-2000 calories a day eating the foods she proposed is a lot easier than eating 4000-10000 calories. Additionally if I was to eat a lot of calories, I would rather eat them in the morning than in the evening when metabolism is faster.

    I think there's clearly a compromise in there. I am a meat and potatoes kind of guy but I do realize that it's vital to eat some vegetables/fruits for optimal health and perhaps using a bit more moderation in getting my macros during any one meal. I realize that some athletes may need 2000 calories in a single meal so that perhaps splitting caloric intake from any one source (decreasing bit of butter and using extra olive oil, avacados, etc) may be a good idea.

    Additionally for optimal nutrition an athlete needs to eat for his sport/needs. Someone who bowls has very different energy requirements and speed if delivery(digestion/absorption) than someone who plays footbal, trains weightlifting, or runs ultra marathons.

    As an extreme example:

    The Kilduff File August 2005

    Sometimes even less than healthy simple/refined carbs are superior to complex carbs in certain circumstances.
     
  13. PowerHungry Oh yeah!

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  14. Dafreeclinic Orange Belt

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    To much "calories" and "fat", what is this the view. Im more of a group 1 guy until someone proves anything to me otherwise.

    The reason Sheafer saids he doesnt want studies posted relates to thread starts I believe like, "New study on fish oil" threads poppin up. Not in evidence of a fact in a post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
  15. XTrainer Red Belt

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    First of all, glenn, why not post this in D&S, we'd be happy to have you :D

    I can't speak for the entire MMA world, but most of the MMA/BJJ/grappling guys I meet in training are either in the #1 or #3 camp. It's hard to tell difference between indifference to good nutrition (#1) and, for those who do care, ignorance of good nutrition--and simply going with conventional wisdom instead (#3).

    On this board, most of the active D&S posters are in the #2 camp (as am I). There is a wealth of literature supporting the #2 school of thought in the D&S stickies because, quite simply, an objective and rational examination of the data lead one to the conclusions of the #2 school.
     
  16. Old Man Black Belt

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    Based on her picture I've decided that she is right and you are wrong.
     
  17. fat_wilhelm Black Belt

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    Don't tell Glenn where to post. He's Glenn-Fucking-Pendlay and he'll post where he wants.
     
  18. XTrainer Red Belt

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    Duh, that's why I want him to post in D&S! :)

    Also, where have you been? Your log has been conspicuously absent from the front page for awhile now...?
     
  19. glennpendlay Yellow Belt

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    Sorry, I will checkout the "D&S". This is the only forum here that I have participated in, I was unaware of a nutrition forum.
     
  20. XTrainer Red Belt

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    I didn't mean to come across as "wrong forum newb!" (as I think fatty thought). Just letting we know it was there, because we'd love to have you posting there. You might find it interesting, we've hashed out the sort of debate you describe in the first post quite a bit.
     

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