"Didn't want to tap to a wrestler" (photo)

nefti said:
so you post a picture of a horribly injured person just so you can say "stupid bjj guy. Yay Wrestlers rule!!!" wow
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Yup, this thread could've gone several ways.

"Uh this is why you tap fast"

"Practice your leglocks or this"

"Ok goddamnit, someone get Palhares on the phone"

(Or even better)

"Rusiiiii! You got some 'splainin to do"
 
nefti said:
so you post a picture of a horribly injured person just so you can say "stupid bjj guy. Yay Wrestlers rule!!!" wow
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Well, we've already seen Chael Sonnen made to look silly dozens of times in the past. Although at least he tapped. Or tried to fake tap.
 
Interesting point made about the ammy rules in Philly. I'm trying to get more details from my source as we speak, as if there's enough verifiable info I'd like to write a small article on it.
 
TheSubmissionCh said:
Uh, ref stoppage IS allowed on subs, even in Professional Mixed Martial Arts. Too many examples to cite, really. Think Sylvia/Mir, Herb Dean officiating. - E
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I mean before the damage is done. If a ref can stop a fight when a fighter is incapable of defending himself from more strikes in order to prevent head injuries, then why (at the amateur level) can't a ref stop a fight when a joint lock is being applied and the guy can't escape or defend it? Sure, it'll result in some controversial stoppages, but so do stoppages due to strikes. And in the grand scheme of things, walking away with an L on your record is better than having a L on your record and a foot that is doing it's best Linda Blair impersonation.
 
pesadissimo said:
I mean before the damage is done. If a ref can stop a fight when a fighter is incapable of defending himself from more strikes in order to prevent head injuries, then why (at the amateur level) can't a ref stop a fight when a joint lock is being applied and the guy can't escape or defend it? Sure, it'll result in some controversial stoppages, but so do stoppages due to strikes. And in the grand scheme of things, walking away with an L on your record is better than having a L on your record and a foot that is doing it's best Linda Blair impersonation.
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Well I think the intent of the strikes rule is that the person is "rocked" or out of it and not able to make the decision that the fight is over.

When you are caught in a sub nothing is preventing you from tapping except your own stubbornness.
 
KJGould said:
Oops

2ntl89c.jpg


From a recent amateur MMA event. I'm hoping to get more details, but the story I've been told is a BJJ guy "didn't want to tap to a wrestler".
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ego. It'll get you every time.
 
JJBoy said:
IMO if you ever think "This person is a _________ so I will not tap to them," you're thinking too hard.
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You are also an idiot and only bad things will happen. Submission Grappling is the ultimate contact with reality. If you screw up and get caught its tap snap or sleep. That's it. Your delusional thinking and pride will get demolished.
 
PolishHeadlock said:
Well I think the intent of the strikes rule is that the person is "rocked" or out of it and not able to make the decision that the fight is over.

When you are caught in a sub nothing is preventing you from tapping except your own stubbornness.
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That's a good point I guess I wasn't taking into consideration... being in trouble and unable to react vs. being in trouble and unwilling to react.
 
Alex88 said:
Jeez , i would hate to train at a school like that.
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At a gracie CTC you work solely on self defense oriented techniques until you get your blue belt. Your rolling (they call it "Reflex Development" IIRC) is against a guy wearing boxing gloves and shin pads punching kicking kneeing you, your goal is to avoid the strikes, get the takedown, and control then sub the guy. Once you get blue you roll more without the gloves in a more sportive type manner, but anyone from a CTC has deeply ingrained how to deal with someone trying to take your head off. Its a different mentality, if all you care about is sport it makes no sense, but for the real world and making sure first you can protect yourself, it makes perfect sense.
 
taylonr said:
So if I read that right, you'd have to stomp a foot, knee a head AND heel hook to be DQ'd. Because it's just a foul like kicking the groin. It doesn't say instant DQ.
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Usually you can't win on a foul though.
 
Man that looks awful...
 
KJGould said:
I'm told it was from an inverted heelhook, so I would guess the knee is completely jacked.
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if this is true, i personal opinion is that the inverted heelhook will fuck you up. every time i have seen one in mma the dude got fucked up. period. this dude wasn't rolling with his friends. in an mma match, the other dude will crank the fuck out of it and i would believe it would be pretty hard to tap out before damage is done.

have you seen the video to prove this bjj guy's arrogance? coz the telephone game sucks pretty bad. Did you hear that surfer guy pulled a knife on Mr. Hand?

i guess it has been at least a week since we had a bjj vs ___ thread here.
 
Nomad Nemesis said:
if this is true, i personal opinion is that the inverted heelhook will fuck you up. every time i have seen one in mma the dude got fucked up. period. this dude wasn't rolling with his friends. in an mma match, the other dude will crank the fuck out of it and i would believe it would be pretty hard to tap out before damage is done.
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Whenever I roll with an MMA guy, especially amateurs, it's clear they are training to crank the living hell out of the 5 or 6 subs they know, especially leglocks. So you get in this situation a lot where an MMA guy will grossly telegraph, say, a kneebar attempt, except that he will muscle the attempt like crazy and then will try to muscle a heel hook or toe hold when you break out of the kneebar. It's not hard to escape because they don't set it up, but then you also don't want to mess around with it because they will CRANK it if they even have it for a second. I guess it trains you to be more committed to your sub defense and not linger in the hold, but still makes you wonder about the danger of that MMA mentality.
 
trustdoesntrust said:
Whenever I roll with an MMA guy, especially amateurs, it's clear they are training to crank the living hell out of the 5 or 6 subs they know, especially leglocks. So you get in this situation a lot where an MMA guy will grossly telegraph, say, a kneebar attempt, except that he will muscle the attempt like crazy and then will try to muscle a heel hook or toe hold when you break out of the kneebar. It's not hard to escape because they don't set it up, but then you also don't want to mess around with it because they will CRANK it if they even have it for a second. I guess it trains you to be more committed to your sub defense and not linger in the hold, but still makes you wonder about the danger of that MMA mentality.
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Damn this is very true. I have the same experience training with the MMA fighters at my school. It's good and bad in my opinion. As long as no injuries happen and you know the tendencies of certain training partners then it's a good change up in intensity to a roll as compared to the casual BJJ player.
 
KJGould said:
Interesting point made about the ammy rules in Philly. I'm trying to get more details from my source as we speak, as if there's enough verifiable info I'd like to write a small article on it.
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If you do I hope you try to contact both fighters, the promoter and the sanctioning body if there was one.
 
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