Did last night prove that wrestling is the best base for MMA?

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ultrasonic

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  1. BigFoot Silva
    Base: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
    MMA debut: March 6, 2005

    vs.

    Daniel Cormier
    Base: Wrestling
    MMA debut: September 25, 2009

    6131415167_7713aa24d6.jpg



  2. King Mo
    Base: Wrestling
    MMA debut: September 28, 2008

    vs.

    Roger Gracie
    Base: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
    MMA debut: December 2, 2006

    Lawal_Gracie.jpg



  3. Jacare Souza
    Base: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
    MMA debut: September 13, 2003

    vs.

    Luke Rockhold
    Base: Wrestling
    MMA debut: July 24, 2007

    jacare_rockhold_weigh_ins.jpg
 
Under the Unified rules,of course it is. Reading the various MMA message boards this morning, it seems to me many Americans take joy over foreign fighters losing and deny any advantage that the current rules have for American wrestlers. The glee some people seem to have over Roger getting KO'ed is puzzling to me. The guy has limited MMA experience. He got caught.
 
You cant call Rockhold a wrestler he only did high school wrestling, he is no more of a wrestler than Frank Mir.

Rockhold is the archetypical MMA fighter, good at everything and able to flow from one aspect to another.

Very well rounded guy, and i was amazed at his kicking.
 
Yesterday proved that AKA kicks ass and that you need to be well rounded to compete at the highest level of MMA. All your "wrestlers" won because they got the better of the stand up.
 
MickCollins said:
Under the Unified rules,of course it is. Reading the various MMA message boards this morning, it seems to me many Americans take joy over foreign fighters losing and deny any advantage that the current rules have for American wrestlers. The glee some people seem to have over Roger getting KO'ed is puzzling to me. The guy has limited MMA experience. He got caught.
Click to expand...

How the unified rules helped any of the BJJ guys last night?

The heck Jacare fights like your typical wrestler in MMA.

If anything yesterday proves that MMA is MMA, not a dick measuring contests between disciplines.
 
Rod1 said:
How the unified rules helped any of the BJJ guys last night?
Click to expand...

They didn't. Here's one of my issues with the unified rules. If you are Roger,Jacare,Miguel Torres, etc.. Your takedowns come from BJJ/Judo. If you go for one of those takedowns and fuck them up, you can end up in guard. In a grappling match or VT, no biggie. Under the unified rules, judges penalize you. You'd be on your back, they'd also probably credit the other guy for a takedown. And since the rules don't allow you to do multiple things from bottom guard to open up a guy for subs/sweeps, going for such a takedown is basically too high risk.

The way the rules are now is eliminating the ground game. The ground game is now to get a single or double, if you do throw pillow fisted strikes a la Chael or wait for a stand up like Migyty Mouse,Woodley,etc..
 
I think last night proved that MMA takes a certain type of person with a certain type of instinct. of course we already knew that. So i suppose it actually proved nothing.
 
Not really. If anything, its that being well rounded is the best skillset to have, BJJ is still important, and that the BJJ fighters need to modify their games in order to be more successful(Improve their guard to be very dangerous, or import high level wrestling coaches if they haven't already).
 
The rules favoring wrestlers excuse is over exaggerated.

Mighty Mouse passed Torres guard several times, which scores points in BJJ btw. Torres not coincidentally found more success with his sweeps and trying to work from on top than throwing up his legs from bottom.

The guard was never intended to be a go-to position. It was developed so if you were put on the ground, you weren't fucked and you might take advantage of a mistake or ignorance from the opponent.

How the guard is used from a strategic standpoint in MMA is going to dictate the success of BJJ guard players within it.

Unless you're stopping a guy from punching you, neutralising or forcing errors of them so you can get your own offense in, you absolutely should be penalised for hanging out on bottom hoping for a fight ending submission.
 
Also Jacare was also behaving like the archetypical wrestler yesterday and he still lost.
 
Rod1 said:
Also Jacare was also behaving like the archetypical wrestler yesterday and he still lost.
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Rockhold impressed me. He's long and lean and I think Jacare fatigued by the third round. Jacare's quite athletic but I wonder if he has a little too much muscle mass? At least muscle that isn't intended for stamina and endurance, more fast twitch not enough slow twitch etc.

I asked in another thread but got no response, I wonder if the grueling 25 minutes Jacare went through will effect how he performs against Braulio at ADCC.
 
when did the grappling forum start getting all these stupid threads?

does anderson silva prove that muay thai is the best style every time he fights? does nogueira vs couture prove that wrestling sucks compared to bjj?

for fucks sake, mo and cormier didn't even win with their wrestling, they won with their heavy ass hands and boxing technique. why are people going out of their way to figure out which art is the best base for mma when it's been perfectly clear for years that this depends on the practitioner.
 
MMA is probably the best base for MMA. I realize that's facile, but the best guys are the ones who do it all and don't rely exclusively on their amateur combat sport backgrounds (like GSP learning to wrestle, Frankie Edgar learning to box, etc.).

The only broad statement that I would make (given that everyone knows basic subs and their defenses and basic standup) is that being good at TDs and having good TD defense are very important for every fighter because if you have those you can dictate where the fight takes place.
 
portland said:
Rockhold is more a jj fighter then a wrestler.
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Wow, that's insane. He showed some great TD defense out there. Impressive. That's what wrestling every day with those beasts at AKA will get you.
 
randomg1t said:
when did the grappling forum start getting all these stupid threads?

does anderson silva prove that muay thai is the best style every time he fights? does nogueira vs couture prove that wrestling sucks compared to bjj?

for fucks sake, mo and cormier didn't even win with their wrestling, they won with their heavy ass hands and boxing technique. why are people going out of their way to figure out which art is the best base for mma when it's been perfectly clear for years that this depends on the practitioner.
Click to expand...

Sorry but Silva crapped on his pants the moment he realized that Cormier could take him down at will.

Cormier like Lawal are mainly freestyle wrestlers, freestyle wrestling takedown ability are a million of years ahead of your average folkstyle guy.
 
Uchi Mata said:
MMA is probably the best base for MMA. I realize that's facile, but the best guys are the ones who do it all and don't rely exclusively on their amateur combat sport backgrounds (like GSP learning to wrestle, Frankie Edgar learning to box, etc.).
Click to expand...

I don't know what facile means :redface:; but I agree with your point.
 
All the wrestlers out-struck the jiu-jitsu guys. So I guess it shows that better wrestling and better striking is typically better than better bjj.
 
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