Did Jon Win?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Shaddows, Jan 4, 2015.

  1. Shaddows

    Shaddows Steel Belt

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    Jon just beat one guy that many thought would have the tools to tool him.

    Jon climbed a huge mountain, and shut up a lot of people. Not doubters, because (I think) at this point in time, if you doubt him, you are just blind.

    Yes, Jon won the battle...but did he win the war?
    This is my question for you.
    Did Jon win the war?

    Let me explain.
    By war, I mean the acceptance of people as someone great..which IMO it is obvious that this is what he yearns.
    and I think he lost.

    First, in his own words, the UFC made him "look like the bad guy".
    Then the "you there p***y" argument.
    Then the other battle of words.

    Yes, Jon prove DC wrong inside the octagon.
    But outside, it seems he took some major steps back.

    His hands raised, then the sign, then the post fight interview... you could even strike that as "in the heat of the moment" thing. (he even apologized for that).

    But then, at the post fight press conference, then later in an interview, then clowning at his FB.... dude, I understand you beat DC. But learn to win!

    Yes, obviously there are a lot of people who will suck up to him no matter what he does or how he behaves. We've seen that. People who like to root for the champ, regardless of his character.
    And I think it is fair. Heck, plenty of people rooted for Sonnen! And Jon is a beacon of righteousness compared!

    But IMO he lost his quest to be cheered unanimously by most, the way guys like Fedor, GSP or Silva are.

    What I have doubt now, is if Jon gave up on this quest to gain acceptance and said "F*ck it!".
    He was exposed big time before and after this fight... so IMO it is almost impossible to turn this around (heck, even Dana is saying he should turn heel!).
     
  2. iboufring**

    iboufring** Green Belt

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    Good thread TS. You will get flamed and seen as an Jon Jones hater tho

    His fanboys is coming for you :)
     
  3. Post 2 Decision

    Post 2 Decision Black Belt

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    He is embracing his true personality. He's not the 'nice guy' GSP. He's the young, cocky, extremely skilled a-hole. And I for one will respect him more if he stops pretending to be someone he's not.
     
  4. JayPrimo

    JayPrimo Blue Belt

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    Not for nothin, but Anderson Silva didn't do anything negative media wise, and was recieving insane amounts of Boos and hate when he was dominating his division. The average person gets bored of dominant champs because they don't have the sense to appreciate watching a living legend work.

    I remember an interview where he was saying, "he goes out and knocks people out fast, and the fams talk shit. So he goes out and gives guys a chance by delaying the inevitable, and peolple still talk shit. What do the fans want?"

    Says it all. Whatever it is you do in life, do it the way that makes you happy, and screw everyome else. They are only thinking about what would make themselves happy anyway, no?
     
  5. J180

    J180 Brown Belt

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    [YT]ckkaOPjvVSY[/YT]

    "You won't see him winning 10 in a row anymore," said Cormier. "He'll win some, but then he'll lose some, then he'll go searching for answers. He'll go up to heavyweight, he'll come back down. My goal is not only to beat him and take his belt, I'm coming to throw his whole career into a tailspin. Because not only is he going to lose this fight, it's going to put doubt and questions in his head, he'll never be able to answer them. You're going to see a different man whenever he gets out of that cage on Jan. 3."

    Cormier says he'd absolutely be willing to face Jones again in an immediate rematch, but that he believes 'Bones' would need to be convinced to take the fight.

    "Right away," said Cormier. "I'll beat him up again. I'll beat him on Jan. 3., he'll come right back, I'll beat him again. When a guy that believes the way that he is, he won't be the same. So not only will he lose to me, but his career is going to go in a tailspin. His head will be spinning. He won't know what's going on. This dude's in for a rude awakening. I'm looking to rid MMA of Jon Jones."

    http://www.mmafighting.com/2014/12/...er-cm-punk-dana-white-anderson-silva-mma-news

    [​IMG]
     
  6. iboufring**

    iboufring** Green Belt

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    Is he really like that tho? Jones personality is truly hard to judge. Tomorrow he will be the nicest guy ever, then turn into an asshole again. Rinse and repeat
     
  7. KR811**

    KR811** Blue Belt

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    Fans would still hate Jones even if he had the opposite version of his personality. Then he would be considered "boring" and having no personality.
     
  8. pudgelarson36

    pudgelarson36 Green Belt

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    If internet forums were around in the 90's, you can be sure there would have been endless threads trashing Michael Jordan. For some reason, fans seem to really have a difficult time appreciating that they are witnessing history.
     
  9. Plutoburn

    Plutoburn Alpha booze head

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    Anyone remember he used to portray himself as a religious person in one of the UFC interviews (countdown maybe?)
     
  10. SocraticMethod

    SocraticMethod Kingmaker

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    The "war" as you define it, isn't over. There is nothing Jones could have done last night that would have made any significant chunk of his haters start cheering for him. Had he been nothing but respectful, he'd have been attacked for being "fake." In an odd way, as much as his actions after the fight have riled many up, I think they probably got him a few more fans than being "respectful" would have.

    Based on Sherdog, which is pretty anti-Jones in general, it seems his performance last night earned him some begrudging respect in the form of: "Yeah, he's great, but I still hate him." Is that his end goal? Probably not. But it's a step up from: "I hate him, and he only wins because he's tall."
     
  11. estranged

    estranged Brown Belt

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    yes he did... unfortunately :)
     
  12. Shaddows

    Shaddows Steel Belt

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    I like your input, and can see some trues in it.
    But I kind of disagree with your assessment (and the general feeling that if he is respectful he would be deemed as fake).

    Look at DC. Even on the most heated arguments, he continuously said Jon is GOAT and he respected his abilities. After the fight, DC spoke well of Jon.
    Yes, obviously he could not belittle Jon since he lost, but Jon could have followed suit and just acknowledge DC was a hard battle. Not give in anything else.
    But he did not need to keep on bashing DC. He won. he beat DC. There was no need for that.

    That's why I don't know if "the mask" fell and this will be Jon from now on (which will probably be much more accepted than if he tries to be nice once more IMO).

    Again, I am not saying this is right or wrong or judging Jon.
    I just don't know if we saw a permanent change, or if he will still try to be the "good guy".
     
  13. ib313

    ib313 Imagine a Dystopian UFC

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    If he weren't champ, I wouldn't give a crap about JJ
     
  14. Shaddows

    Shaddows Steel Belt

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    I think you missed the point.
    Yes, DC had the belief he'd beat Jon. Both guys had.

    But you saw on the "behind the scenes" how Jon even acknowledge he was fake once the cameras turned on.
    If anything DC was always the same way.

    Note: you also seem to try to explain why Jon behaved like this. That's not the point.
    Jon long to be accepted. To be loved.
    That's why he tries so hard.

    If he traded barbs with DC or not it's not the point.

    Besides, take other guys like Machida. Do you envision him responding to anyone like this?
    Or even Silva (against Sonnen). Sonnen was 10 times worse, more personal than DC and SIlva did not do a third of what Jon did.
     
  15. SocraticMethod

    SocraticMethod Kingmaker

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    I see what you're saying, but DC doesn't already have a "fake" reputation like Jon does.

    I totally agree with you that it was unnecessary, though.

    I also don't know if this "heel" Jon is the real Jon, or if the humble Christian guy is the real Jon. I imagine they're both parts of him and he's probably still trying to figure out who he is and how to present himself to people.

    I just don't think he'd have won anyone over in terms of getting them to cheer for him had he been respectful after the fight.
     
  16. McSpikes

    McSpikes Purple Belt

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    There is no winning for Jon Jones. If he is humble and respects his oppents people call him fake, if he speaks his mind people call him an asshole. There is no sense in trying to win over fans. Fans love to hate him so if UFC can market fighters as the "one" to beat him they will be buying the ppv with false hopes of seeing him lose. So yes he wins.

    It's pretty obvious white folk don't like tall good looking black men invading their little white and brown wonderland of a sport. Same thing would happen if there were to ever be a black dominant NHL player
     
  17. SevenDeadlySins

    SevenDeadlySins Orange Belt

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    He is a great fighter but I hate him and his personality so much that I do not care who he is going up against, I hope they knock his head off. Will not happen though but it gives me something to loom forward to every time he fights.
     
  18. Jet40

    Jet40 Brown Belt

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    Jones is probably never going to get the support of the people he so desperately wants, so that war he is losing.

    But the war to be considered the GOAT is going quite well for him. He won another major battle last night.
     
  19. Shaddows

    Shaddows Steel Belt

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    Well, I for one, was happy with his win. (I love witnessing history in the making). And I was happy for this win for him (it validated a lot of things we knew of him). But the way he acted just threw me off (again).
    And I am sure I am not alone that takes how a fighter behaves as part of the fighter.

    I'll respect much more a guy who loses a fight but remains respectful than a buffoon that acts without class.
     
  20. Johnny Rosa

    Johnny Rosa Banned Banned

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    This (good) thread isn't about Cormier. What is your point, if any?

    Because it was fake, and he is an (not fighter bashing). Just the way it is. And it's not a race thing, I'm black and tall and totally dislike him, not race related at all. Cheap actually to blame it on that and not his antics
     

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