Did Jon Jones fight most of his opponents out of their prime during his title reign?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by MXZT, Oct 29, 2020.

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Did Jon Jones fight most of his opponents out of their prime during his title reign?

  1. Yes

    49.6%
  2. No

    50.4%
  1. MXZT Red Belt Platinum Member

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    Let me start by saying, Jon Jones is not P4P best fighter right now. That honor goes to Khabib or even Adesanaya. The fighter who I consider the P4P the best is based on "what have you done for me lately?" And that's why I believe Khabib and Adesanya is higher than Jones in P4P rankings.

    Now lets look at Jones title reign.

    Shogun - When Jones fought him for the title, Shogun was 29 years old had a 19-4 record. Just around his prime. Had a very impressive win over Machida going into the Jones fight. In fact some people believe Shogun won both of their fights.

    Rampage - When he fought Jones he was 33 years old had a 32-8 record. And probably out of his prime due to fight mileage. However just recently Rampage said he was at his best shape when he fought Jones. So who knows really.

    Machida - When he fought Jones he was 33 years old had a 17-2 record. He was still in his prime. Also he just highlight reel KO on Couture in his last fight before Jones.

    Rashad - When he fought Jones he was 32 years old, had a 17-1-1 record. He was still in his prime.

    Belfort - When he fought Jones he was 35 years old, had a 21-9 record. He had 7-1 record in his last 8 fights before Jones. Hard to say if he was out of his prime with that record going into that fight.

    Sonnen - When he fought Jones he was around 36 years old, had a 28-12-1 record. Also just had a title fight with Anderson Silva which he lost. He could very well be out of his prime.

    Gus - When he fought Jones he was 26 year old, had a 15-1 record. Probably just reaching or was in his prime at that point.

    Glover - When he fought Jones he was around 34 years old, had a 22-2 record. Had a 20 fight win streak heading to the Jones fight. With that streak I don't think he was out of his prime. Considering Glover is still competitive today and could get a title shot in the near future.

    Cormier - When he fought Jones he was around 36 years old, had a 15-0 record. Even with his age most of if not all you think he was still in his prime.

    Ovince Saint Preux - When he fought Jones he was 33 years old, had a 19-7 record. He was in his prime.

    Gus rematch - When he fought Jones he was 31 years old, had a 18-4 record. Still in his prime.

    Anthony Smith - When he fought Jones he was 31 years old, had a 32-13 record. In his prime.

    Thiago Santos - When he fought Jones he was 35 years old, had a 21-6 record. Also he was 9-1 in his last 10 fights going into the Jones fight. Even at 35, I think he was in his prime.

    Reyes - When he fought Jones he was 30 years old, had a 12-0 record. In his prime.

    So out of 14 fights only 3 you can say were out of his prime. Well that's my perspective of it.
     
  2. OmegaRugal Red Belt

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    They were older guys but it was also pre USADA where mid 30s was perfectly fine thanks to juice/TRT.

    I would say most where in their prime.
     
  3. Peli Black Belt

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    Some of them were older but still probably in their fight prime so I'd have to say no but his last contenders, arguably for titles fights were jokes. Alex had like a year or so layoff wasn't the same gus we knew before though he did beat glover after losing to Jon. Anthony, santos, and reyes are not p4p fighters.

    I don't blame Jon for fighting them but he did look weak against three of them so obviously not p4p when you're decisioning non p4p fighters
     
  4. moreorless87 Straba

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    Shogun and Rampage are the two I'd question, Rua was champ but coming off of a 3rd ACL surgery, gassed in under 4 mins, Rampage hadnt looked good in a couple of years before the match and wasnt up to much afterwards either.

    A big issue as well is that Jones turned up just as LHW was starting to shift in size, all divisions bar HW have gotten bigger but I think LHW is one of the more extreme as you had alot of guys in it rather than MW because it was a much richer division. So Jones vs Rashad, Machida and Shogun greatly outsized his opponents, you add in Sonnen and Vitor and he's spent a good part of his career beating guys who are really more natural MWs by modern standards.
     
  5. GreenGorilla Blue Belt

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    Rashad,Rampage,Machida,Belfort,Shogun,Cormier,Gus

    Show me another fighter that had victiories like that in a row.
     
  6. michaelmichaelmichael90 ShizzleMaDizzle

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    Somebody wake me up when all this P4P and GOAT talk is over. OMG IT"S SOOOOOOOOO PLAYED OUT. HOW MANY MORE THREADS ABOUT P4P WILL THERE BE THIS WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  7. Ancient Warrior Gold Belt

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    Welcome to Sherdog.
     
  8. eiyuu Silver Belt

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    If you like Jones, no. If you don't like Jones, yes.

    That's the long and short end of this conversation because "in the prime" is too damn subjective to be able to determine accurately.
     
  9. JAL Green Belt

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    Gus? stop it lol.. dudes best win is losing to Jones and DC.. imagine your best win being a loss lol.. Anthony Smith subbed him lol
     
  10. Ufcmaster Banned Banned

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    Yes bonny is been fighting an old guard that had 10+ years of damage on them.

    You can't fault bonny for that but it's fact he fought old past prime legends

    Bonny was a more succesful Schaub lol
     
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  11. BenRichards Brown Belt

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    Ask yourself how you felt in your early to mid 20s then compare that to your early 30s.

    The juice excuse don't fly because jon was using too in his 20s no less.

    Do an overall size comparison. How many were able to make mw? then think they were almost 10 years older with significantly higher competitive mileage. The 1st gus fight showed us what happens when jon fights someone his size and age. It doesn't look impressive at all. Now were seeing skate on thin ice with the santos and Reyes fights.

    Khabib existed in a literal shark tank fighting opponents while having advantage outside of mastery of his craft.
     
  12. Dirge Silver Belt

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    Given the heavier weight classes tend to have longer primes I would agree that most if not all of his opponents were at their best when he fought them.
     
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  13. moreorless87 Straba

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    Whilst you have to respect his undefeated record honestly I think its questionable not just whether Jones beat guys like Fedor and Stipe at HW but whether he beats tons of guys like Crocop, JDS, Ngannou, Werdum, Nog, Sergei, Cain, Barnett, Sylvia, Reem, Arlovski, Aleks, Semmy, Herring, Bigfoot etc

    Jones the destoryer was IMHO a bit of a myth based on a gassed Shogun and guys like Vera who were clueless on their backs, really Jones career is mostly that of a careful fighter who exploits a size advantage well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  14. Saabatical White Belt

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    What are their records after the Jon Jones fights? At the time I thought a lot of those were great fighters, but if memory serves me correct a lot of those names really fell off fast.

    I'm too lazy to look up records while working.
     
  15. G10 Orange Belt

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    I will proudly admit that I'm a Jones hater, but I never bought the myth that he benefited from beating a bunch of past-prime former champs. During his championship reign, all of the guys he beat EXCEPT Chael Sonnen were legit LHW contenders who were close to their best form. I do agree with your point here, though. I also wonder when he likely started using PEDs, too.
     
  16. JSN choo-CHOO!

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    I don’t think this is really a yes or no question. His greatest legacy accomplishment is Cormier, then Gusta, then the rest are mix between solid wins, gimmes and even a couple of questionable decisions.

    I would say that for historical purposes the Shogun win is probably less impressive than it appears on paper. Shogun was still good no doubt but never the same fighter after the late Pride injuries, and not really a modern LHW in terms of size either.
     
  17. moreorless87 Straba

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    Vitor wasnt in LHW contension either but as I said in my post I think its only really Shogun and Rampage who were past prime, well in Shoguns case both past prime and off form as vs Coleman the 2nd time.

    Rampage hadnt looked good in a fight since KOed Wanderlei in 2008 IMHO and Shogun was badly gassed in under 4 mins of ground control from Jones.
     
  18. sampuncher Black Belt

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    I don't really like Gus but it's ridiculous to say Gus wasn't a good win. Look at how close the fights were with Jones and DC. They were very close losses and could have gone either way.

    Glover, Shogun, Jan, Manuwa, Thiago were all solid wins at the time.
     
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  19. OmegaRugal Red Belt

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    The 3rd ACL issue is a legit.

    Him gassing though? No ... he was completely rocked.

    He was rocked with the first attack of the fight when Jones surprised him with that jumping knee to start the fight. NEver would he had expected that from Jones who at that time was just destroying people on the ground and his amazing takedowns.
    Shogun's cardio was actually very good in that fight if not he would have been finished far sooner.
     
  20. moreorless87 Straba

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    Jones didnt seem to agree he was rocked in either situation as he didnt follow up like he did for the finish, again I think Shogun is clearly gassed badly when he stands back up but Rogan was never going to say that. You can see he's breathing hard, is sluggish and he never recovers staying that way for the rest of the fight.

    Jones basically beat up a badly gassed fighter for 10 mins IMHO not Shogun in anything close to his best form. Again I think you see this displayed when Jones fought other big name LHW's afterwards, he never showed that kind of threat again bar Sonnen who was clueless on his back.

    SHogun was never the same after the 3rd surgery but against Jones it was espeically bad as he was coming off of the long layoff, the way he looked like crap vs Coleman but far better vs Chuck and Machida.
     

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