Did Dana give any hints he was closing Pride and Strikeforce?

[Damon3388]

Dunno about Pride. But he wanted to keep SF running but pilfer their top talent. Showtime said no thanks.

What would Strikeforce be worth, really, without the top talent? It's not like it became an established name (like the UFC is today) outside of the hardcore MMA fanbase.

 

[FrodoFraggins]

What would Strikeforce be worth, really, without the top talent? It's not like it became an established name (like the UFC is today) outside of the hardcore MMA fanbase.

Well I thought it was a good opportunity to make it a UFC minor league and a place for guys to get back on track.

 

[FrankieNYC]

I don't think they're especially "struggling" business-wise, either. A lot of the "UFC is dying!" narrative comes from people with no insight into the business, who are just salty because XYZ fight isn't happening, or "fighter pay!",etc.

If WME sold tomorrow, they'd likely be selling for more than they bought the company for make a profit.

The minute a SD member brings up "UFC is struggling", there is no need to go on.
It is obvious they have no idea of the business infrastructure & how profitable UFC is.

If UFC sold tomorrow it would be for a lot more than the purchase price
For a variety of reason
The biggest being how less reliant they are on big names than ever before
In 2019 if Conor does not fight, they should be at $300m profit
that is TWICE Lorenzo's best year as owner

 

[horc00]

That is not smart business.
It is smarter to have one infrastructure
That is why when Sirius bought XM, they became SiriusXM
That is why WWE didn't do WCW shows

SiriusXM isn't an acquisition, it's a merger. Radio stations have heaps of infrastructure and assets.

On the other hand, UFC's parent company acquired Strikeforce. MMA promotional companies have very little infrastructure. UFC and Strikeforce are basically MMA brands. They organise to make events happen. UFC and Strikeforce have no venues of their own to upkeep and maintain. So your point of having "one infrastructure" doesn't make sense. That's like saying having 2 modelling agencies merging in order to save on office space.

I can give examples too. After Pfizer purchased Wyeth, Wyeth still exists, as do the various brands under Wyeth.

When AB Inbev acquired SAB Miller, they didn't dissolve the Miller brand, Budweiser and Miller pretty much still exists as competitor brands.

When Facebook acquired Instagram and WhatsApp, they didn't shut down the two platforms nor asked everyone to migrate their chats from WhatsApp to Facebook Messenger.

If Zuffa's intention to purchase Strikeforce is purely to obtain Strikeforce's biggest stars, they could've just spent a fraction of the acquisition fees to buyout the contracts of Strikeforce's biggest stars and left Strikeforce with all the 2nd rate fighters. Keeping Strikeforce alive under Zuffa with UFC have-beens and up-and-comers will also act as a buffer for the UFC against newer companies like Bellator.

 

[ferrisjso]

The minute a SD member brings up "UFC is struggling", there is no need to go on.
It is obvious they have no idea of the business infrastructure & how profitable UFC is.

If UFC sold tomorrow it would be for a lot more than the purchase price
For a variety of reason
The biggest being how less reliant they are on big names than ever before
In 2019 if Conor does not fight, they should be at $300m profit
that is TWICE Lorenzo's best year as owner

UFC isn't struggling but relative to the past they are and their future outlook isn't great. Hope it changes.

Also regardless, the UFC is much more heavily reliant on big names than in the past. There's almost no one who could top 400k PPV buys anymore when in the past there was hardly anyone who couldn't. That profit has to be coming from stuff other than the PPV's because that business has went backwards. TV deals, less fighter pay and the like. It's just hard to imagine them doing so much better than the time when they had the Fox deal and when 500,000 PPV's were easy to obtain. ESPN deal I imagine is bigger how much don't know but UFC's core PPV business is bleeding without Conor fighting.

 

[FrankieNYC]

If Zuffa's intention to purchase Strikeforce is purely to obtain Strikeforce's biggest stars, they could've just spent a fraction of the acquisition fees to buyout the contracts of Strikeforce's biggest stars and left Strikeforce with all the 2nd rate fighters. Keeping Strikeforce alive under Zuffa with UFC have-beens and up-and-comers will also act as a buffer for the UFC against newer companies like Bellator.

That wasn't just their intention
They own the SF catalogue as well

They have a huge buffer between them & Bellator
The space between Bellator & UFC is about $700m a year in revenue (2018)

Also, if you look into the SXM deal it was not really a merger, as much as Sirius absorbed XM.

Sirius XM Radio was formed after the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) approved the acquisition of XM Satellite Radio Holding, Inc. by Sirius Satellite Radio, Inc. on July 29, 2008

Bringing up non entertainment acquisitions is apples & oranges.

 

[FrankieNYC]

UFC isn't struggling but relative to the past they are and their future outlook isn't great. Hope it changes.

Also regardless, the UFC is much more heavily reliant on big names than in the past. There's almost no one who could top 400k PPV buys anymore when in the past there was hardly anyone who couldn't. That profit has to be coming from stuff other than the PPV's because that business has went backwards. TV deals, less fighter pay and the like. It's just hard to imagine them doing so much better than the time when they had the Fox deal and when 500,000 PPV's were easy to obtain. ESPN deal I imagine is bigger how much don't know but UFC's core PPV business is bleeding without Conor fighting.

Again, if that is your reply
You really are not versed on the business

You say the future outlook isn't great, when they should top $1b in rev in 2020 & they make over TWICE what the previous regime made in yearly profit & will do so in 2019 without a single PPV sold.

Here is some info for ya my man
https://www.bjpenn.com/mma-news/ufc...ellator-looking-back-at-2018-forward-to-2019/

 

[ferrisjso]

Again, if that is your reply
You really are not versed on the business

You say the future outlook isn't great, when they should top $1b in rev in 2020 & they make over TWICE what the previous regime made in yearly profit & will do so in 2019 without a single PPV sold.

Here is some info for ya my man
https://www.bjpenn.com/mma-news/ufc...ellator-looking-back-at-2018-forward-to-2019/

Yeah again mostly the tv deal then, main difference between low PPV's now and low PPV's then. They are then dependent on the(larger) tv deal, no guarantee that is renewed and whether or not that is renewed is largely dependent on ratings, yeah for that period that income is locked in. You're looking at 2020 as the future I'm looking further ahead and I see trouble not per the UFC going under but in terms of maintaining it's status over Bellator. I'm thinking more at the end of this contract or the one after that where things will be.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Yeah again mostly the tv deal then, main difference between low PPV's now and low PPV's then. They are then dependent on the(larger) tv deal, no guarantee that is renewed and whether or not that is renewed is largely dependent on ratings, yeah for that period that income is locked in. You're looking at 2020 as the future I'm looking further ahead and I see trouble not per the UFC going under but in terms of maintaining it's status over Bellator. I'm thinking more at the end of this contract or the one after that where things will be.

Like I said before ....

Also regardless, the UFC is much more heavily reliant on big names than in the past.

 

[horc00]

That wasn't just their intention
They own the SF catalogue as well

They have a huge buffer between them & Bellator
The space between Bellator & UFC is about $700m a year in revenue (2018)

Pretty much every market leader started off as a 2nd rate competitor. UFC themselves were 2nd fiddle to Pride. Yahoo! was king and raking in big bucks when they refused a cheap offer to acquire Google. Yet look where they are now.

Bellator might still be a long way beneath the UFC but they're the king of the bush leagues now and their roster is undeniably improving slowly but surely. Fact is, many fighters pissed with Dana White and how he run things are leaving the UFC for Bellator. If Zuffa had allowed Strikeforce to continue as a separate entity from UFC with Coker at the helm, any fighters leaving UFC for Strikeforce will still be fighting for Zuffa.

Left pocket, right pocket.

Also, if you look into the SXM deal it was not really a merger, as much as Sirius absorbed XM.

Bringing up non entertainment acquisitions is apples & oranges.

As are radio comparisons.

 

[FrankieNYC]

As are radio comparisons.

Nope
It is all entertainment industry going for the same consumer

 

[ferrisjso]

Like I said before ....

The PPV numbers prove this. The influence of someone who can draw even a mediocre 400k PPV's is going to be far greater than in the past where it was assumed all champs in the 155+divisions can do that. Don't know what there is you'e mocking, you just need to look at the buyrates and this becomes crystal clear that things have changed. Sure the ESPN contract is a win, you just are providing evidence the UFC will be number one for the immediate future, which no one disagrees with you're not going beyond that. Contracts don't last forever and are made because of how many people are expected to watch they are not a stable thing.

 

[FrankieNYC]

The PPV numbers prove this. The influence of someone who can draw even a mediocre 400k PPV's is going to be far greater than in the past where it was assumed all champs in the 155+divisions can do that. Don't know what there is you'e mocking, you just need to look at the buyrates and this becomes crystal clear that things have changed. Sure the ESPN contract is a win, you just are providing evidence the UFC will be number one for the immediate future, which no one disagrees with you're not going beyond that. Contracts don't last forever and are made because of how many people are expected to watch they are not a stable thing.

I have to bail on you if you don't retain the info given

LAST TIME:
UFC is twice as profitable without a single PPV sold then they were in 2015 with their reliance on PPV.

So they are the opposite of reliant on bigger stars than ever before.
PPV is the icing, it is no longer the cake

 

[ferrisjso]

I have to bail on you if you don't retain the info given

LAST TIME:
UFC is twice as profitable without a single PPV sold then they were in 2015 with their reliance on PPV.

So they are the opposite of reliant on bigger stars than ever before.

Never denied this. Never denied any of the info you've given. Denying the conclusions you are drawing from it.

It is twice as profitable without a single PPV sold for the duration of that contract. Doesn't address Bellator, their roster quality or anything else except their profitability in the next few years. If the quality of the promotion declines or even if just their viewership does there is nothing saying this money will continue to be there.

UFC's got a fighting chance I think Bellator's set up to win long term. LONG TERM. I want the UFC to win. I don't like tournament gimmicky based promotions. I think Bellator is set up to win long term though and I think the reason is because the UFC dissolved Strikeforce. A tv contract is selling a product for a tv station to sell and if that product gets worse and less people are willing to watch it while your opposition(who has deeper pockets) picks up steam you're on pace to lose and the successful ESPN contract doesn't mean anything in regards to that conversation.

Maybe the UFC is solid enough a brand where more people continue to watch them on ESPN(which with free cards is going to get even worse quality than the PPV's) on brand loyalty and this continues forever. Maybe something unforeseen happens that stops Bellator in it's tracks(sure did with Pride). Brand gives the UFC a fighting chance but that is not a sure thing.

 

[FrankieNYC]

In order:

Also regardless, the UFC is much more heavily reliant on big names than in the past

So they are the opposite of reliant on bigger stars than ever before.
PPV is the icing, it is no longer the cake

Never denied this. Never denied any of the info you've given.

I don't think you even know what you type lol

You can get the last word in without me replying
I'm repeating & you are not retaining

 

[ferrisjso]

In order:








I don't think you even know what you type lol

You can get the last word in without me replying
I'm repeating & you are not retaining

No I retained. PPV isn't everything because of TV deal which generates guaranteed income no matter how terrible PPV numbers get. I'm not denying that. I'm telling you that isn't a secure position, TV deal renegotiation is dependent on viewership of a product that will usually be inferior to the struggling PPV's(changing that tradition up might be risky but successful strategy).

We're not disagreeing on things we're disagreeing what they mean long term.

 

[micahl]

@FrankieNYC has the patience of a saint, ha
<45>

 

[Black Paladin]

Right before he closed down Pride he said "Pride will live for years to come." That was 10 minutes before he closed it down, called Pride fans fucking goofs then banged Arianny.

Video posterity --> fans fucking preposterous --> Arianny's posterior

Hahhaha!

 

[Mga223]

I thought he said they planned to continue Pride, but then no one would cooperate - and he implied that the Yakuza put the stop on it

It's name was practically destroyed.

Even with new owners I don't see how it survives.

 

[Mga223]

The minute a SD member brings up "UFC is struggling", there is no need to go on.
It is obvious they have no idea of the business infrastructure & how profitable UFC is.

If UFC sold tomorrow it would be for a lot more than the purchase price
For a variety of reason
The biggest being how less reliant they are on big names than ever before
In 2019 if Conor does not fight, they should be at $300m profit
that is TWICE Lorenzo's best year as owner

Damn wme screwed lorenzo