1. We now have a new forum called Fantasy Matchup Discussion. Access it here

Did Cain Valasquez career cost DC the chance to be greatest undefeated HW GOAT of all time?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by TheMaster, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. TheMaster

    TheMaster Take The Road To Reality

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,200
    Likes Received:
    701
    Cormier was undefeated and still is at HW.
    Stepped aside and waited for Cain's HW aspirations and fought in an inferior division for him of lhw, where a lanky enhanced Jones would always have the advantage.

    If not for Cain, DC may now be finishing career as undefeated HW MMA goat.

    So did Cain cost DC this accolade and potential all this time?
     
  2. LockardTheGOAT

    LockardTheGOAT Sherdog's Intellectual Savior

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Messages:
    6,524
    Likes Received:
    10,957
    DC got to wreck a lot of people at LHW though, and win its title. Granted, he ever officially beat Jones for the belt and always ended up having to live in his shadow because of it, but still.

    If Cain had never fought and Cormier had stayed at HW, there's a decent chance Jones would have moved up and eventually beat him anyway. Even if he didn't, a guy like Ngannou might have put his lights out.

    So I somewhat agree, but not entirely. He still has a hell of a record at HW, all things considered. However he gets to say he was a double champion as well.
     
    felmmando likes this.
  3. abiG

    abiG Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    4,339
    Likes Received:
    14,814
    No, that would Jonnygoat.
     
    Readybodisready, svmr_db and pseto223 like this.
  4. Bobby Boulders

    Bobby Boulders My Lovin' Is Digi Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    33,364
    Likes Received:
    51,118
    Location:
    The Slums of Shaolin
    531839.gif
     
  5. Congo66

    Congo66 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    7,331
    Likes Received:
    12,997
    Location:
    London
    DC first fought at LHW in the UFC in Feb 2014.
    Since then the HW champs were Cain, Werdum and Stipe so yeah pretty much.

    The only fighter in the UFC that can beat DC is Jones, so him moving up would have been the only threat.
     
    Black Paladin likes this.
  6. randomalias

    randomalias Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2009
    Messages:
    4,841
    Likes Received:
    1,976
    Location:
    United States of Europistan
    Yes and it sucks. He should have been HW goat (at least with regards to the UFC) and the superfight between him and Jones would have happened at HW. Much better odds for DC at HW.
     
  7. Bobby Boulders

    Bobby Boulders My Lovin' Is Digi Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    33,364
    Likes Received:
    51,118
    Location:
    The Slums of Shaolin
    It's hard to say. He got both LHW and HW titles, which is a huge accomplishment. Even while he never beat Jones to get the LHW belt, he beat all of the top LHW rivals and looked like a guy who was far and away the best LHW during that time, while Jones was suspended and whatnot. He's still undefeated at HW, he still won that belt and the Strikeforce HWGP. He's still arguably in the discussion of HW GOAT (I still favor Fedor, myself, but DC is certainly still a viable answer to that question).

    I don't think it matters if he's the common answer to the HW GOAT question or not though. All said and done, he's absolutely one of the best MMA fighters we have ever seen, a class act, and will be remembered as such.

    I don't think Jones would have moved up to challenge him if DC hadn't moved down. He's never given us any indication that he will ever move up to HW except flapped his gums about it for years. Would DC have lost to a guy like Ngannou? Maybe, maybe not. Fedor's streak is remarkable bc most HWs can't keep from getting KTFO at some point. Fedor was in trouble a few times and managed to win where others would have probably lost (Fujita fight, Randelplex). I suppose that if we go on pure skill, DC is a guy who possibly could have made it through years of close calls at HW. Even though Jones knocked him out, perhaps DC's chin is better at HW where he isn't draining himself to make weight? Lots of heavy hitters at HW too though, so who knows?

    In all honesty, it is doubtful we will ever see a streak like Fedor's again at HW. But if we do, that man will be in the conversation of HW GOAT.
     
  8. MEAN357

    MEAN357 DMF belt

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Messages:
    5,252
    Likes Received:
    8,672
    Location:
    Chiberia
    Honestly yeah. I mean his size might of gave him trouble against some of the bigger strikers like JDS or reem just given his height and reach disadvantage but i honestly couldn't pick a HW to beat him.

    I suppose it's also worth considering that having Bones as a rival definitely caused DC to raise his game in an Ali Frazier sorta way
     
    Tulpa Omega likes this.
  9. Egészségére!

    Egészségére! Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    2,695
    Likes Received:
    6,716
    not sure how he would've done against a 2013 JDS or Werdum but it's a great question
     
  10. dildos

    dildos Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    Messages:
    19,075
    Likes Received:
    35,197
    Location:
    Sydney
    Yeah I hate the idea of fighters changing their career for their team mates. It’s pussy ass bullshit.

    Team mates should fight each other too. We would have so many awesome fights aswell.
     
  11. felmmando

    felmmando Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    5,023
    Likes Received:
    3,216
    I'm sceptical of this. I'm pretty sure Gustafsson would have won if he had been on steroids when he fought Cormier.
     
    ferrisjso likes this.
  12. ferrisjso

    ferrisjso Black Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5,710
    Likes Received:
    2,469
    Undisputed? Probably because the Fedor people are never going to let it go. Among the non cult members yup.

    LHW is superior to HW though. That's part of how we know DC is the best HW in that way things might be better for him. No way I think DC could fight Gus to a virtual draw if I didn't see it happen in real life.
     
  13. ferrisjso

    ferrisjso Black Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5,710
    Likes Received:
    2,469
    IMO and the opinion of one of the judges he did win.
     
    felmmando likes this.
  14. HootyMcBoob

    HootyMcBoob Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 31, 2016
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    1,703
    I think prime JDS and Ubereem would have presented serious challenges for DC.
     
  15. treestump

    treestump Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2017
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    278
  16. 613

    613 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    13,659
    Likes Received:
    9,470
    Maybe when he was younger. Today's HW DC moves half the speed of LHW DC
     
  17. ferrisjso

    ferrisjso Black Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5,710
    Likes Received:
    2,469
    "and looked like a guy who was far and away the best LHW during that time, while Jones was suspended and whatnot"

    -He beat Gus by a split decision. Gus almost finished him in that fight and if Gus gets round where that occured on all three scorecards Gus wins.
    -Rumble almost finished him
    -Bader and Davis went to Bellator, DC cut both in line to get a title shot.

    Only top LHW DC proved his clear and constant superiority over was Volkan.

    It's arguable DC was the best LHW other than Jones, I don't agree but it's arguable. Not "far and away" at all. Jones gets all the advantages you are giving to DC at HW too.

    If the UFC was structured like Pride was tying Fedor's streak becomes much more realistic. It's harder to get win streaks in the UFC cause the best fight what is usually the best other fighter, less non title bouts and bracketed tournaments. Still Jones and Holloway could both end up hitting 20, that's pretty good. If you don't count the Jones DQ he's about to hit 19. Holloway's only at 13 but he's still not even close to 30. It can happen but Pride was a big boost.
     
  18. pseto223

    pseto223 White Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    40
    Heavyweight has been barren division for years, but still DC moved down and evaded the big names there. Personally I think a Werdum match would have been very interesting. Probably DC woudn't mess with him on the ground, so it probably would have been a standup match and I would favour Werdum there.

    There is also JDS, Overeem, younger Stipe (well, that's basically the HW division for like the last 5, if not 10 years anyhow).

    Also I woudn't call DC the GOAT of GOATs if he ducks Ngannou. Who is the rightful contender now and whom Stipe disposed easily with. If DC fights and wrestlefucks him - we could debate then.
     
  19. Bobby Boulders

    Bobby Boulders My Lovin' Is Digi Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    33,364
    Likes Received:
    51,118
    Location:
    The Slums of Shaolin
    Well, I can give you credit bc I probably shouldn't have said "far and away", but he did still prove he was the best.

    I was talking about a run at HW. It says it in the post. If you searched through the records of UFC HWs today you'd find that several of them were KO in some regional promotion by some dude you've never heard of. It's the reality of fighting in a weight class where any punch can put you down at anytime. Going as long as he did without being KO as a HW is impressive, no matter how you cut it. It's the reason why a seasoned and feared striker like Overeem can tool a guy like Bigfoot on the feet for two rounds and still get KO. Or a young guy like Todd Duffee can put an absolute beating on a guy like Mike Russow and still get KO. It can happen at anytime, to anyone. Going basically a decade and making it through unscathed, it's remarkable.

    If you're skeptical, no worries. What amazes me doesn't have to amaze you. But I know that a lot of people here agree with me.
     
    Tulpa Omega and ferrisjso like this.
  20. Jack Stevonovich

    Jack Stevonovich Green Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,445
    Likes Received:
    1,223

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.