Did any of 70s and 80s famous fighters start in TMA?

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My perception of boxing back in the day was that they all came from the streets.. It wasnt like they tried out a few martial arts and then settled on boxing.

Today is largely the same. Rolly Romero was a judoka before switching to Boxing but I think thats an exception. Vitali Klitchko did kickboxing first but his brother didnt.

Did any fighter in the 70s and 80s have pyjamas martial arts training before becoming boxers?

 

[mozfonky]

My perception of boxing back in the day was that they all came from the streets.. It wasnt like they tried out a few martial arts and then settled on boxing.

Today is largely the same. Rolly Romero was a judoka before switching to Boxing but I think thats an exception. Vitali Klitchko did kickboxing first but his brother didnt.

Did any fighter in the 70s and 80s have pyjamas martial arts training before becoming boxers?

not many. The martial arts was all about money then and now. Boxing at the time was still a thriving ammie and pro sport so kids could train for the price of a pair of handwraps and a mouthguard, that's all I had to get. In fact, I was very surprised when I heard that Hector Camacho started in Karate before boxing. Martial arts was expensive enough then and even today so that it's kinda a middle class and up endeavor. Look at Michael Jai, nothing screams hood about that guy no matter how big his ego is. I don't know who his parents were but I'm pretty sure they were at least middle class and a solid family unit.

Anyway, Troy Dorsey from that era was a kickboxer and a good boxer, Randall "Tex" Cobb was a kickboxer and there may have been others. It's gone the other way too, that one guy, Sugarfoot whatever his name is, he had a boxing background and would have done well in boxing, but he would have had to beat some phenomenal fighters, he did the right thing going into kickboxing and dominating there. Maurice Smith tried boxing but was kayoed, I think twice. Again, the comp was so much thinner in kickboxing and even today, I'm really not sure how dense the talent pool is in mma. It was poor early on and it's certainly gotten way better but I'm not sure if it's comparable to other pro sports, of course, fans of the sport will hate to hear that.

 

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not many. The martial arts was all about money then and now. Boxing at the time was still a thriving ammie and pro sport so kids could train for the price of a pair of handwraps and a mouthguard, that's all I had to get. In fact, I was very surprised when I heard that Hector Camacho started in Karate before boxing. Martial arts was expensive enough then and even today so that it's kinda a middle class and up endeavor. Look at Michael Jai, nothing screams hood about that guy no matter how big his ego is. I don't know who his parents were but I'm pretty sure they were at least middle class and a solid family unit.

Anyway, Troy Dorsey from that era was a kickboxer and a good boxer, Randall "Tex" Cobb was a kickboxer and there may have been others. It's gone the other way too, that one guy, Sugarfoot whatever his name is, he had a boxing background and would have done well in boxing, but he would have had to beat some phenomenal fighters, he did the right thing going into kickboxing and dominating there. Maurice Smith tried boxing but was kayoed, I think twice. Again, the comp was so much thinner in kickboxing and even today, I'm really not sure how dense the talent pool is in mma. It was poor early on and it's certainly gotten way better but I'm not sure if it's comparable to other pro sports, of course, fans of the sport will hate to hear that.

That's right. Randall Tex Cobb. I forgot about him.

I Still don't get how Ngannou is the only one to exploit Furys punch and grab, and knock him down. I can only assume the division is really weak If it takes an athlete from another sport to do it. Fury has been getting away with shitty tactics for years...

 

[mozfonky]

That's right. Randall Tex Cobb. I forgot about him.

I Still don't get how Ngannou is the only one to exploit Furys punch and grab, and knock him down. I can only assume the division is really weak If it takes an athlete from another sport to do it. Fury has been getting away with shitty tactics for years...

that's all it is, some people don't want to hear that and will deny that but it used to be a non boxer had a very hard time in boxing, no matter how big or strong or athletic. Ed Too Tall Jones never made it very far, I mentioned Maurice being kayoed by a fringe contender but back then even a fringe contender may have had hundreds of ammie fights before they turned pro. James Broad was a talented fighter with an ammie background, there is no video of the fight Im aware of but an early kayo pretty much means a guy really didn't belong in there.

Don Wilson didn't do a whole lot better in boxing. These days nothing that happens surprises me but it does dissapoint me.

 

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that's all it is, some people don't want to hear that and will deny that but it used to be a non boxer had a very hard time in boxing, no matter how big or strong or athletic. Ed Too Tall Jones never made it very far, I mentioned Maurice being kayoed by a fringe contender but back then even a fringe contender may have had hundreds of ammie fights before they turned pro. James Broad was a talented fighter with an ammie background, there is no video of the fight Im aware of but an early kayo pretty much means a guy really didn't belong in there.

Don Wilson didn't do a whole lot better in boxing. These days nothing that happens surprises me but it does dissapoint me.

Don wilson blames it on his coach trying to change his style from kickboxing which led him to getting tkoed

 

[mozfonky]

Don wilson blames it on his coach trying to change his style from kickboxing which led him to getting tkoed

ya, fighters usually blame something. I never saw the fight, Don is a great martial artist, just not a boxer apparently. These days, if he were young, he could probably beat a guy of similar level to the guy he lost to. Like I say, back then, even the clubfighters could be really good. That's no insult to those guys, for what they were, they were the cream but I always heard the stories of a Joe Lewis or whatever getting kayoed in sparring or Don Wilson losing.

Boxers have failed at kickboxing to though, usually way out of their primes and just looking for a quick paycheck but Ray Mercer and Botha have been dominated in kickboxing. A fight is a fight and you change a few rules and it can make a huge difference as we learned in the last few decades.

 

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ya, fighters usually blame something. I never saw the fight, Don is a great martial artist, just not a boxer apparently. These days, if he were young, he could probably beat a guy of similar level to the guy he lost to. Like I say, back then, even the clubfighters could be really good. That's no insult to those guys, for what they were, they were the cream but I always heard the stories of a Joe Lewis or whatever getting kayoed in sparring or Don Wilson losing.

Boxers have failed at kickboxing to though, usually way out of their primes and just looking for a quick paycheck but Ray Mercer and Botha have been dominated in kickboxing. A fight is a fight and you change a few rules and it can make a huge difference as we learned in the last few decades.

Most of Dons wins came from punches...his boxing wasn't bad. he said his coach wanted him to be a pressure fighter and that's why he got fucked up.

 

[mozfonky]

Most of Dons wins came from punches...his boxing wasn't bad. he said his coach wanted him to be a pressure fighter and that's why he got fucked up.

I don't know, I think I did hear that in kickboxing, the hands did most of the damage but there certainly have been some fights where throwing in kicks to the rules changes everything.

I'm not convinced of just how good kickboxers were at that era but we have also seen some kickboxers make boxers outright quit in later years. Ray Mercer just said fuck it after a kick to the head, Riddick Bowe looked pretty bad against a kickboxer. Ya, they were both shopworn but if hands were everything, they would have still been able to compete.

 

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I don't know, I think I did hear that in kickboxing, the hands did most of the damage but there certainly have been some fights where throwing in kicks to the rules changes everything.

I'm not convinced of just how good kickboxers were at that era but we have also seen some kickboxers make boxers outright quit in later years. Ray Mercer just said fuck it after a kick to the head, Riddick Bowe looked pretty bad against a kickboxer. Ya, they were both shopworn but if hands were everything, they would have still been able to compete.

Don Wilson best James Warren who was both both boxing and kickboxing champ at the time.

 

[mozfonky]

Don Wilson best James Warren who was both both boxing and kickboxing champ at the time.

james warren, is he the guy who fought in the ufc?

Anyways, those guys deserve respect, Norris, Lewis, Smith etc.., I just really don't know how to gauge how good they were. I have no way of really judging as I do in boxing. All I know is that they would have gotten served in pure boxing.

 

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james warren, is he the guy who fought in the ufc?

Yep

 

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james warren, is he the guy who fought in the ufc?

Anyways, those guys deserve respect, Norris, Lewis, Smith etc.., I just really don't know how to gauge how good they were. I have no way of really judging as I do in boxing. All I know is that they would have gotten served in pure boxing.

Strangely enough, Warren didn't box Wilson,it was actually Wilson who boxed him Up. Warren
employed foot fencing. He has freakishly Long legs

 

[mozfonky]

Strangely enough, Warren didn't box Wilson,it was actually Wilson who boxed him Up. Warren
employed foot fencing. He has freakishly Long legs

ok, like i say, i respect all those guys but I just don't know if they had the competitiveness, the stamina, the training ethic to compete in boxing. For one thing, when i watched kickboxers, those guys would be like 190 pounds and physically they didn't look like no elite 190 pound boxer, they weren't trained down to fighting trim like boxers were in most cases. Barry McGuigan once said that making weight was the toughest part of boxing and I don't think most kickboxers did that.

that one guy, Sugarfoot cunningham would have done very well but in an era where you had so much variety of so many different styles, he would not have been able to be a dominant fighter like JCC or Whitaker, no way.

One other thing that's interesting, I recall the kickboxing of the 80's had to implement a rule to force a certain amount of kicks because too many boxers were coming in to take advantage of the lack of talent at the time.

 

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that one guy, Sugarfoot cunningham would have done very well

He didnt have any venomous punches, did he?

 

[mozfonky]

He didnt have any venomous punches, did he?

no, that was the biggest problem, he had no power whatsoever. A fighter can still win like that but that's certainly a problem. You can't hurt guys in a sport that's all about hurting and you will have problems no matter how fast and skilled you are. Even Whitaker got robbed at least 2 times in his prime of big wins because he couldn't really hit.

 

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no, that was the biggest problem, he had no power whatsoever. A fighter can still win like that but that's certainly a problem. You can't hurt guys in a sport that's all about hurting and you will have problems no matter how fast and skilled you are. Even Whitaker got robbed at least 2 times in his prime of big wins because he couldn't really hit.

Yeah I dont know. 21 knockouts in 50 kickboxing fights is not good. But kickboxing does have lower much ko ratios than boxing.

 

[mozfonky]

one thing that was interesing about guys like Bill Wallace or Joe Lewis were that they were articulate and analytical in ways that could be conveyed about their styles. Wallace was a very smart man, I think he had some sort of degree in sports physiology and he was very thoughtful. Lots of martial artists are way more capable of telling you what they are doing and why, boxers generally being from the lower classes are usually not as articulate or thoughtful, maybe they do most of what they do by instinct or maybe they just lack the ability to express what they are doing. Like I say, I respect the early guys more than most people do today. However, you put a bill wallace in with Carlos Monzon or Marvelous Marvin hagler, what do you expect to happen?

 

[Doctor Grudge]

There was a martial arts craze but I'm not sure how widely available it would have been in the 70s. I think of it more as a suburban thing at that point, though many people from low income and working class did do karate and what not to stay out of trouble.

I am sure there are boxers in the late 80s that probably did do some martial arts as a kid but nothing serious. It was already very widely available by then.

 

[Intermission]

one thing that was interesing about guys like Bill Wallace or Joe Lewis were that they were articulate and analytical in ways that could be conveyed about their styles. Wallace was a very smart man, I think he had some sort of degree in sports physiology and he was very thoughtful. Lots of martial artists are way more capable of telling you what they are doing and why, boxers generally being from the lower classes are usually not as articulate or thoughtful, maybe they do most of what they do by instinct or maybe they just lack the ability to express what they are doing. Like I say, I respect the early guys more than most people do today. However, you put a bill wallace in with Carlos Monzon or Marvelous Marvin hagler, what do you expect to happen?

I dont know why you bring those guys up. This was about boxers, they were never boxers

 

[mozfonky]

I dont know why you bring those guys up. This was about boxers, they were never boxers

ok, i'll let one of the other many posters responding to your thread take your question up.