Social Despite Overwhelming Evidence Vaccines Safe & Effective, "Hysteresis" Endures

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Madmick, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Greoric

    Greoric Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    16,299
    Likes Received:
    7,549
    Well, it's never "settled"... for anything... ever. The highest claim by the SM is a provisional truth. With that said, you're still better off erring on the preponderance of the current data, which in this case points to the lack of a link between Autism and Vaccines.
     
    Grenz likes this.
  2. TheComebackKid

    TheComebackKid Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,318
    Likes Received:
    16,057
    And who should be in charge of regulating information and establishing what is and isn't credible?
     
  3. abiG

    abiG Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    3,550
    Likes Received:
    12,477
    Look, G, believe what you want, but everyone who came on here thinking vaccines causing autism was proven to be false was WRONG.

    Much more actual science needs to be done here. That much is clear.
     
    Fugazy and Pelosi2016 like this.
  4. Greoric

    Greoric Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    16,299
    Likes Received:
    7,549
    The preponderance of the data does not support you, however, I agree science isn't ever "settled", and I have sympathy for your dissent. I think you're wrong here, but more importantly, I think its also valuable to have some element of incredulity if not dissent.
     
    Fugazy likes this.
  5. Kalitaur

    Kalitaur Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    640
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    No, antivaxxers continue to claim that "the science isn't settled" because every time one of their bullshit claims is refuted, they just move the goalposts and claim something new. Funny how that works...
     
  6. abiG

    abiG Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2017
    Messages:
    3,550
    Likes Received:
    12,477
    The goalposts are fine. We know now that yes, in some cases children get autism from vaccines. The question now is, what will we do about it?
     
  7. MMAisGod

    MMAisGod Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,502
    Likes Received:
    1,586
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, Florida
    That is a question I do not have the answer too, and I'm not sure if there is a clear answer as to how it could be done. Any potential effective method die eons ago imo, as it would have needed to be part of the initial disbursement methodology.

    When you think of how many people in say, America, have been permanently altered or reshaped due to free accessible, even pushed misinformation, you're speaking about tens of millions of people easily. Possibly more depending on the subject. For example the "flat earthers" we refenced, when they polled 8k+ millennials recently they found 33% of people ages 18-24 believe the earth is flat. How can that even be possible in 2018? With all the "information" we have out there. Take that level of misinformation into people's beliefs, and magnify it given a different topic with larger opinions at stake and you have 2019 in a nutshell.

    That is not what was envisioned for us, to believe and support nonsensical arguments because we can "back them up". Ultimately, it has been more dangerous and caused more damage for us than any oversight-level system to help mitigate this misinformation.
     
    INTERL0PER likes this.
  8. Lubaolong

    Lubaolong A natural consequence of gamma radiation

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Messages:
    22,449
    Likes Received:
    2,421
    Unfortunately, these activists don't know shit.

    Vaccines aren't drugs.
     
  9. nicapica

    nicapica Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2018
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    394
    Location:
    werk
    Lol at anti vax weirdos. My uncle thru my my aunt has polio foot it’s fucked. I remember asking him why his shoes are always bent up my mom pulled my ear and told me not to mention it again. I’ve seen multiple older people deformities from polio it hit Nicaragua hard.
     
  10. Revolver

    Revolver you sound poor Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    37,294
    Likes Received:
    45,476
    Location:
    Awesome
    Anti Vaxxers should worry more about finding someone to have their kid instead of this imo. lmao
     
    Limbo Pete likes this.
  11. Kalitaur

    Kalitaur Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2013
    Messages:
    640
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    Still wrong. We now have observed that fever may result in neurologic regression in a subset of kids with rare mitochondrial dysfunction. That's it so far. What do we do next? More studies and fewer conspiracy theories.
     
    Madmick, Grenz and Greoric like this.
  12. Greoric

    Greoric Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2006
    Messages:
    16,299
    Likes Received:
    7,549
    Is this like a G6PD and fava beans type link? There's already a deficiency in ATP production from the mito, and given the energy requirements of neurons, any insult (like the SE of fevers from vaccines) just exacerbates an underlying issue to produce the S&Sx?
     
  13. TheComebackKid

    TheComebackKid Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,318
    Likes Received:
    16,057
    This is my point...there is no central person, no entity, and no process capable of objectively determing what is and isnt credible. Credibilty is relative. I think one should understand and accept that not everyone is going to believe the same things...even when it comes to the shape of the earth.

    You and Trotsky seem to find our traditional sources and authorities regarding information(schools, "scientific community", msm, us government, ect) credibile. The fact is millions of Americans find them and their information to be non credible. And theres no objective way for you to tell them theyre wrong. Shouldn't they be allowed to think and operate that way as free people?

    Are you suggesting that a flat earther should be censored and not allowed to freely share their arguments and information because you find the idea non credible?

    I STRONGLY disagree. I disagree so strongly that I'd support taking up arms against you or anyone else attempting to take away our free speech.

    I believe this mass distribution of information has cut through all the lies we've been told by everyone and set many people free on many fronts.
     
    sniper likes this.
  14. iNoScopedJFK

    iNoScopedJFK TUF Noob

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2011
    Messages:
    10,769
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I really don't understand anti-vaxxers. Do they think vaccines just not work and are some sort of scam by big Pharma or that they are more harmful than the diseases they are curing
     
  15. Renard

    Renard Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Messages:
    4,715
    Likes Received:
    8,499
    Inertia is a far more straightforward way to describe it.

    I don't agree that the initial conditions have "changed" though. Fundamentally the movement exists because people don't trust pharmaceutical companies and they don't trust the government to adequately monitor the products of the former. It's a social trust issue, and neither big pharma or the government is winning any points in that race.
     
    Greoric likes this.
  16. MMAisGod

    MMAisGod Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,502
    Likes Received:
    1,586
    Location:
    Tampa Bay, Florida
    I agree with the first part. We missed the boat to have it in order, and now there would be no effective way to put a system in place. However, individuals not believing the same things is an entirely different situation than the mass peddling false of information.

    LolWut? I can't speak for his positions on anything, but if you've ever read the context of my posts beyond a fist slam reaction you'd know that you couldn't be more wrong here.

    Here you are asking the right question. The answer is, if polluted misinformation had some sort of, let us call it, a "credibility filter", flat earth believers would not exist. At worst they would know in advance that their beliefs are highly dubious. Flat Earth is the definition of sham science, believed by those influenced enough and misinformed enough to go all in on it. It is the prime example to easily highlight what misinformation is capable of.

    The result? No one wins in this scenario, as you have an individual(s) becoming stupider, knowledgeable individuals attempting to talk sense into them, and a movement becoming mainstream to reinforce their already proven false beliefs. On a grander scale, on more serious topics, you can understand how problematic this has been and can be. It is very prevalent everywhere, including right here in the WR.

    Easy there cowboy, don't go get the 44 magnums just yet.

    I think you are getting so caught up in "fighting a battle" that you are not attempting to understand what I have stated. Or better yet, you are declaring that the smaller fraction of credible released information is justification for the immensely larger amounts of misinformation passed off as trustworthy, ultimately deemed dependable by someone who has been duped. Your stance ultimately becomes more detrimental than you realize, because while yes everything is "unfiltered" so you can learn more than you would have known in 1965, if there was a credibility factor involved we would have significantly less false news and you would learn the same things anyway. The ones that are true that is.

    Allowing the populace to be manipulated by false information was not the intention behind the advancement of information, but paradoxically your own stance actually supports this, while you claim to be against that. Reflect on this.
     
  17. sniper

    sniper so poor.... and so black

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    11,758
    Likes Received:
    30,596
    With all the evidence showing how dangerous big pharma is, if you arent skeptical about their motives... I dont even know what to say.

    EVERYTHING is about money. Literally everything. But some of you think "this time is different" "this is just about helping humanity"

    That is absolutely insane
     
    Fugazy and chardog like this.
  18. TheComebackKid

    TheComebackKid Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    45,318
    Likes Received:
    16,057
    I agree...false information is bad and harmful. We agree on that. Where we disagree is whether or not there[/quote]

    I don't think you're following what I'm saying my friend
     
  19. chardog

    chardog That's President Donald Trump

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    16,543
    Likes Received:
    2,226
    the problem with vaccinations are the heavy handed approach, so there's going to be pushback. All 5 of my kids have been vaccinated, however 1 of the 5 has allergic reactions related to the vaccinations. None of the providers would even give her the time of day when I mentioned reactions. Moving forward, I simply dont vaccinate my daughter beyond the basics of what she has already. Same with my younger ones, I have basic one dosage, and when forced for school, I'll get the rest. I cant deal with a sick kid in the hospital.
     
    Fugazy and sniper like this.
  20. chardog

    chardog That's President Donald Trump

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    16,543
    Likes Received:
    2,226
    consider this, if big Pharm had their way, the common flu shot would be mandatory....
     
    InternetHero and sniper like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.