Social Despite Overwhelming Evidence Vaccines Safe & Effective, "Hysteresis" Endures

[Kalitaur]

The idea that vaccines are safe and effective as implied in this thread's title has NEVER been settled.

Of course not, when one side of dicussion demonstrates this mix of cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty:

 

[all caps]

Wheres the propaganda thread tag I requested?

 

[Blowing Dixie]

What kind of vaccines are we talking about? Serious diseases or something like the flu?
Because getting narcolepsy or some other fucked up side effect from a forced flu shot, just to save some weak ass people whose frail bodies can't handle a flu, is something I'd go full postal over.

 

[TheComebackKid]

This topic (the persistence of ignorance re vaccines) is a great microcosm for how the internet age has not panned out at all like we had hoped (like a great liberator for thought and knowledge).

We thought that, with everyone now having access to limitless knowledge and facts, our citizens and voters would become more informed than they were before when they most received limitd information through agenda setters in the media. It turned out the exact opposite, as citizens' personal consumption of information abandoned all the best practices of mass media consumption, and people just chose to seek out information that confirmed what is easiest or most convenient to believe. So, even if we're less uninformed that years past perhaps, we're definitely more misinformed than ever before. So, with vaccines, we were effectively smarter when we knew less and before we realized that stupid people thinking for themselves is often just stupid people outsourcing their thought to other stupid people.

Frankly, it's a win for paternalists the world over, and a giant drop kick in the balls to anti-paternalistic libertarians like myself.

I think it's working out great. We get to learn all the things that was kept from us in school and mainstream society. We get to look into things for ourselves and decide what we think. No more central authority ruling over information.

 

[abiG]

Wheres the propaganda thread tag I requested?

LOL, yup.

Anyone on the fence or with an open mind should watch this short vid. It comes from the University of Calgary's Dept. of Physiology and Biophysics' faculty of Medicine.

Cliffs: We have known for some time.

 

[Cold187um]

Becuase why would you want to listen to doctors and geneticists who have spent decades in their fields when you can listen to Gwyneth Paltrow and Jenny McCarthy

 

[Ruprecht]

Interesting that the same people who are against vaccines also have Trump Derangement Syndrome.

In the War Room, not so much.

Interesting hypothesis. Not sure if I buy it on a social level, but the final paragraph boils the social phenomenon down to its essence, and this I do not doubt. The anti-vax movement isn't rooted in scientific understanding or belief. It is rooted in a philosophical distrust of government and the scientific community who these groups of people distrust believing them a serious threat to the philosophical core of their value systems. While that may or may not be a real threat it has no bearing on the truth of vaccines and autism, and the entirely unsubstantiated link between them.

Spot on. That distrust is the thread that'll draw CTers, hippy woo woo as well as certain sorts of libertarian and religious groups, to the same beliefs.

 

[Trotsky]

I think it's working out great. We get to learn all the things that was kept from us in school and mainstream society. We get to look into things for ourselves and decide what we think. No more central authority ruling over information.

Of course you do.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Of course you do.

And of course you dont

 

[Greoric]

Trump is at least right about the incidence of Autism though. The unfortunate part is that the only thing people think of due to an environmental cause is a commensurate increase in the use of vaccines.

 

[Greoric]

I assume the outlier here being the English study that fabricated the data which pretty much started all this bullshit?

 

[panamaican]

These threads are always a good "idiot check". You can pop in, read the comments, and separate out the idiots from everyone else. Then when you find them in a thread of greater substance, you know not to expect much from them.

 

[Trotsky]

And of course you dont

The "of course you do" was in regard to your belief that "it's working out great." Supporting and not supporting central authority is beside the point. You have no problem with institutionalizing ignorance and delusion, because that's your game. Polio making a comeback because idiots think they know more than actual doctors? Great! Republicans destabilizing the economy and imperiling future generations against the advice of 99% of economists? Awesome! Trump saying 99% of climate scientists are wrong and that they're just perpetrating a Chinese hoax? Dope! A third of the country thinking there is a border crisis despite a decade of declining immigration? Tubular! Kids dying because their parents think praying is as effective as proven medical treatment? Groovy!

Your preference is that your beliefs be considered valid facts. They never will be.

 

[ShinkanPo]

This topic (the persistence of ignorance re vaccines) is a great microcosm for how the internet age has not panned out at all like we had hoped (like a great liberator for thought and knowledge).

We thought that, with everyone now having access to limitless knowledge and facts, our citizens and voters would become more informed than they were before when they most received limitd information through agenda setters in the media. It turned out the exact opposite, as citizens' personal consumption of information abandoned all the best practices of mass media consumption, and people just chose to seek out information that confirmed what is easiest or most convenient to believe. So, even if we're less uninformed that years past perhaps, we're definitely more misinformed than ever before. So, with vaccines, we were effectively smarter when we knew less and before we realized that stupid people thinking for themselves is often just stupid people outsourcing their thought to other stupid people.

Frankly, it's a win for paternalists the world over, and a giant drop kick in the balls to anti-paternalistic libertarians like myself.

Hi Tross
About your last paragraph about your balls being kicked.

You said" anti - Paternalistic Libertarian" are those the groups that complains againts the patriarchy? And if how are they connected with the Anti Vax movement?

Although I notice a lot of these anti vaxers are women and even in my country some anti vaxer mothers have started to pop up

 

[TheComebackKid]

The "of course you do" was in regard to your belief that "it's working out great." Supporting and not supporting central authority is beside the point. You have no problem with institutionalizing ignorance and delusion, because that's your game. Polio making a comeback because idiots think they know more than actual doctors? Great! Republicans destabilizing the economy and imperiling future generations against the advice of 99% of economists? Awesome! Trump saying 99% of climate scientists are wrong and that they're just perpetrating a Chinese hoax? Dope! A third of the country thinking there is a border crisis despite a decade of declining immigration? Tubular! Kids dying because their parents think praying is as effective as proven medical treatment? Groovy!

"Everyone who disagrees with me is delusional".....that's not a view a well balanced mind and person would hold. I think a little self reflection is in order.

Your preference is that your beliefs be considered valid facts. They never will be.

I prefer people look at facts and information and decide for themselves. It's you who can't handle people not taking your beliefs as fact. In fact you would rather redo the internet in order to keep everyone convinced of your beliefs.

 

[JDragon]

Look at the trustworthiness of the pharmaceutical industry. No amount of studies can rectify that. Dr. Jason Fung already proved the sham of Type 2 diabetes. Dr. John Sarnos demonstrates the pain treatment industry is almost completely fraudulent. Think and study for yourself.

Great post (let's call it Exhibit 1). Anti-vaxxers like to refer to dubious authorities (the 'real' scientists among the corrupt mass) and like to mention their 'Dr' titles as if it leads them the credibility they don't have.

As a matter of fact, I believe we will find the greatest commonality between anti-vaxxers and people who refuse to believe that mankind has a significant impact on climate. In other words, people who believe that they will find the truth that the government and science ate trying to hide on obscure YouTube channels.

 

[abiG]

These threads are always a good "idiot check". You can pop in, read the comments, and separate out the idiots from everyone else. Then when you find them in a thread of greater substance, you know not to expect much from them.

Help me out here, Pan. What do you make of Dr. Zimmerman's sworn affidavit?

 

[Trotsky]

"Everyone who disagrees with me is delusional".....that's not a view a well balanced mind and person would hold. I think a little self reflection is in order.

If I say dinosaurs existed and point to hundreds of years of fossil records, carbon dating, and development of scientific consensus....and then you say that dinosaurs didn't exist because that's just how you feel, shaming you is not shaming a valid opinion.

I prefer people look at facts and information and decide for themselves. It's you who can't handle people not taking your beliefs as fact. In fact you would rather redo the internet in order to keep everyone convinced of your beliefs.

It's your assertion that facts don't exist and that beliefs is all that exist. That is stupid.

 

[SaiWa]

Trump is at least right about the incidence of Autism though. The unfortunate part is that the only thing people think of due to an environmental cause is a commensurate increase in the use of vaccines.

LOL. ya go for it.. you're playing Russian roulette with your baby's health though. When you delay those vaccines by changing the schedule because you "think" it's too much all you're doing is opening a window (or several windows) for your baby/child to contract something very serious.

Either you believe these vaccines can cause autism or you don't. This "I don't believe but we should stagger it more" is nonsense.

Think about this. When your baby is born and goes through the birth canal, it begins dealing with bacteria and microbes (anywhere from 2000-6000 different proteins) that the body can respond to. Vaccines only have a few of those stimulating proteins to trigger a minimal response.

But please continue to be scared and terrified of vaccines cause some quack had a BS theory 20-some years ago that has been long since proven to be false...

 

[panamaican]

Help me out here, Pan. What do you make of Dr. Zimmerman's sworn affidavit?

How does my opinion help you out?