Deontay Wilder vs Joesph Parker hypothetical Match up

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by mma sharingan, Jan 23, 2015.

  1. mma sharingan

    mma sharingan Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    3,182
    Likes Received:
    3,125
    Location:
    New Zealand
    How would you see a fight between newly crowned champ Deontay Wilder vs promising prospect Joesph Parker?

    Parker is the next best thing to come out of new zealand since David Tua, although he's not ready for a fight of this level, i haven't seen any holes in his game soo far and think he could possibly give Deontay a tough scrap.

    opinions??
     
  2. The Batkilt

    The Batkilt Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15,852
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Twins
    I don't think Parker is ready yet. I don't think Wilder is unbeatable or anything or even one of the best at the weight, but he does have power and he showed development in his last fight. Really, Parker should be looking to fight at least four times this year and then next year move along towards the fringe level world contenders if he's still doing well at his current level.
     
  3. mma sharingan

    mma sharingan Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    3,182
    Likes Received:
    3,125
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Thanks for the analysis, I've been thinking about this all morning, this gives me a better idea of where parker stands at the moment, but he's heading in the right direction.
     
  4. cuban23

    cuban23 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    5,886
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    Location:
    Miami
    Wilder has more power and athleticism, but Parker has the better skills.
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    4,374
    Location:
    Vegas
    Just out of curiosity, who is currently better at HW not named Wladimir?
     
  6. The Batkilt

    The Batkilt Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15,852
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Twins
    I'm not convinced Wilder is better than Pulev or Povetkin. Pulev isn't exceptional at any one thing, granted; Povetkin has seemingly regressed gradually ever since he first got in a position to fight Wladimir years ago. But I've seen one fight from Wilder where he actually showed that there's more to him than just the much vaunted knockout power. I wouldn't rate him as the second best heavyweight in the world based on that one fight with Stiverne.

    I appreciate a lot of his improvement and work over the years has come in the gym. But Stiverne was the first opponent he's faced where I think the result was even in question before hand.
     
  7. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    4,374
    Location:
    Vegas
    See that's kinda odd to me. It seems like you're basing that low rating on everything EXCEPT what actually happened in the ring with Stiverne. Which is he got his face boxed off for the majority of 12 rounds when people didn't think Wilder even remotely capable of that.

    But, for sake of argument let's say you rate Pulev and Povetkin above him. Alright, so that makes him #4. How is that NOT one of the best of the division still?
     
  8. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2002
    Messages:
    21,793
    Likes Received:
    6,488
    Location:
    WI

    Remotely capable?
    Most picked Wilder to win.
     
  9. The Batkilt

    The Batkilt Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15,852
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Twins
    To be fair, I never posted what my prediction for the fight was, or whether I thought Wilder remotely capable of winning. I've posted in the past that he was made out to be a lot worse than he was by some, but we wouldn't know how good he really was until he regularly fought more challenging opponents.

    Having said that, I don't think someone can win one fight and then is considered one of the best. Not when until then their opposition had been mundane, to see the least.

    I don't have a rankings system, but no, I don't think he's the fourth best heavyweight in the world. After Wladimir it gets harder to even argue based on styles and performances who is 'better' than who, but I think Povetkin and Pulev have both performed against better opposition; so too have Fury and Thompson. (Not to say that Wilder wouldn't beat Thompson - my point is which of the two has fought the better opposition.)

    I'm not arguing that Wilder is a bum. My point originally was that he isn't great. If he were to fight other world level fighters and do to them what he did to Stiverne? Then I wouldn't be making the same argument.
     
  10. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    4,374
    Location:
    Vegas
    Not by out-boxing Stiverne on the back-foot for the full 12 they didn't.

    I just think people's requirements go up for a guy they don't particularly believe in. Before it was "let's see him fight someone real, who can go rounds, and hit him back." Okay, he just did that and handled it fairly comfortably AND that was a Titlist, now it's turned into "well I meant let's see him do that a lot."

    It seems a bit unfair to NOT consider a guy one of the best in the World, when he handily beats the shit out of one of the best in the World. Stiverne didn't have a long list of the same awful crop of opponents everyone else did, necessarily, but his wins over Austin, the ruination of Manswell, and pasting Arreola certainly put him in the top 10 of the division. And if Wilder had splattered him in 1 I could see people being skeptical of the value of the win. But that's not what happened.

    I just don't see knocking a guy down based on what we don't know about him vs. what we do. It's not Wilder's fault that people went away when he touched them. Scott was a valid challenge on paper, and considering he beat Leapai in his next fight (and EASILY), that should send Wilder's stock up a bit. It's not his fault Liakhovich did a funny dance on his back in response to his punch. But he himself went the full distance against Andy Ruiz two fights later. Ruiz who is supposed to be a huge puncher also, couldn't get him out of there.

    Would I like to see him against guys like Chisora, Fury, Mansour even, or Povetkin and Pulev themselves? Sure. But I don't see rating any of these guys higher merely because...say, they ran through the European crop of second-rate heavyweights as opposed to the American crop.
     
  11. The Batkilt

    The Batkilt Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15,852
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Twins
    It's not that I want to see him do that a lot - it's that he doesn't really have any other wins that are that credible for someone who is to be one of the best in the world. Scott, maybe.

    I've always thought that Wilder got stick as he wasn't rushed along, and folk got frustrated with him. I've always thought there was clearly some potential there. Even I was surprised by just how well he did against Stiverne. I thought he'd panic at least when he got hit clean but he kept his composure.

    But I'm still sceptical. I like to see a fighter face a few different challenges before proclaiming him one of the best; how they fare against different types of fighters. There are fights out there that allow Wilder to learn and develop, defend his belt and enhance his reputation. There's every chance I'll be reevaluating my opinion of him in a year down the line.

    I'm prickly about using superlatives or calling fighters world class. If I believed in rankings then sure, the Stiverne win and nature of it would have vaulted Wilder up them quite a lot in one go.
     
  12. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    4,374
    Location:
    Vegas
    Just so we're clear, by what you're saying defeating a World Class fighter doesn't make a fighter World Class. Let alone defeating a couple of them.

    Sorry man, but that IS requiring that someone do a lot to be considered World Class.
     
  13. The Batkilt

    The Batkilt Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15,852
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Twins
    Well, no. I'm saying that I don't consider Wilder to be among the best - but my among the best I mean the top of the division; the top two or three.

    The nature of Wilder's win over Stiverne can't be ignored. He largely controlled where the fight took place, put together combinatons, handled the pace of twelve rounds despite solid body shots, didn't panic when Stiverne landed clean shots. If I bothered with rankings I'm not sure where I'd put him, to be honest. But if he were to beat a couple of other fighters in or around world level this year, then I'd consider him right up there with Pulvev, Povetkin, Fury etc.
     
  14. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    41,793
    Likes Received:
    4,374
    Location:
    Vegas
    Oh, I thought one of the best meant top 5. Or fuck, top 10. There's a reason most people have top 10's. Guess I just think more highly of a guy who IS in the top 10. Out of all the HW's in the entire World, to be one of those...
     
  15. The Batkilt

    The Batkilt Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15,852
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Twins
    Well, it's not that I don't think highly of him. To go from fighting who he has fought to dominate Stiverne is impressive. Sure, he has a size advantage - but he knows how to use it effectively, which Wladimir didn't for years. He showed composure when hit that Wladimir didn't show for years. There are positives there.

    To me the best of the division isn't really defined by a set number. It's the champ and the best few contenders, and some divisions have more quality than others. I don't bother with rankings though as I think without consistent criteria they mean nothing, and often styles make fights more than rankings. But if I did use them then Wilder would have entered the top ten off that win alone. Which itself would be impressive. So aye, I see your point there - if he's among the top ten then he's arguably among the best.

    I hadn't really thought about it in that much detail.
     
  16. The Batkilt

    The Batkilt Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15,852
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Twins
    I take The Ring ratings with a pinch of salt as I think they've gotten worse over the years and due to the connection with GBP, but these are their rankings. Outside of Wladimir as the champion, I'd place Povetkin, Pulvev and Fury ahead of Wilder. I like Jennings, and think he's faced better opposition overall, but he doesn't have a win as good as Stiverne - both in terms of quality and the nature of the win.

    If we accept The Ring's top ten then I think you could argue for Wilder being top five actually.

    I prefer TBRB rankings if I had to refer to them, and again I'd say it's fair for him to be top five.

    Sorry for continuing to derail the thread.
     
  17. PUO3

    PUO3 You are a can. Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    67,027
    Likes Received:
    51,852
    Most picked Wilder to win early by a finish. Pretty much everyone, my fanboy self included, said if Wilder didnt get him out early he would lose.

    He wasnt supposed to have a chin, be able to box, or go the distance. He showed all of that to be wrong.
     
  18. tfcfights

    tfcfights Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    108
    I wanna see parker vs lucas brown nz vs australia two ko artist I just wish we got more big time matchups

    I love the matchup

    I think wilder is gonna fight artur spzilka al haymon just signed him

    wilder beats parker
     
  19. Goreds1994

    Goreds1994 Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    Messages:
    10,349
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Nah Stiverne had rhybadomfalfdksjaosis so the win didn't count -Cuban23.
     
  20. The Batkilt

    The Batkilt Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15,852
    Likes Received:
    44
    Location:
    The Twins
    I'd be interested in seeing Parker fight Browne at some point this year. Browne seems to be the bigger puncher but I'm not really convinced that he's even going to reach fringe level. He's been unfortunate with some fights falling through, but still. I think he's too crude and a decent boxer will be able to take advantage of his poor defensive skills.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.