Defending the bullfighter grip

[Momonga]

I've asked this question at other places, but I haven't got much response, and I guess there are some pretty knowledgeable guys here.

In gi jiu-jitsu, what do you do when someone gets pant grips on you? I usually start playing spider guard, but there are a few really really strong guys I roll with who have monster arms and they just do that basic bullfighter pass on many people easily. I try to grip fight, but sooner or later I lose that battle and I turtle up to prevent the pass. As it means an advantage point for an opponent in an IBJJF match, I want to avoid that.

What are your strategies against bullfighting grips? How do you prevent them and how do you break them once they're on your legs?

Any constructive help is much appreciated and please post some links if you have any.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

Hug the grip and kick the leg

 

[Shemhazai]

2 on 1, then foot on biceps on the other side.

 

[Momonga]

Hug the grip and kick the leg

I've tried that one, but I feel really unsafe hugging one grip with both arms. Also, I figured out it only works when I sit completely upright. Is that the correct way to do it?

2 on 1, then foot on biceps on the other side.

Can you please give me some more details?

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

Why would you use both arms? Use only one arm and yeah you have to sit up.

You can break the grip while staying on your back but it's harder. You'll have to angle out from double sleeve spider, drop your leg straight and a kick, then replace spider and do the same on the other side

 

[Momonga]

Why would you use both arms? Use only one arm and yeah you have to sit up.

You can break the grip while staying on your back but it's harder. You'll have to angle out from double sleeve spider, drop your leg straight and a kick, then replace spider and do the same on the other side

I feel it's somewhat easier for my opponent to pass when I'm sitting up. It kind of feels like he can just keep circling and finish what he started. :icon_neut

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

You really need to learn sitting up guard to compliment your spider. You're not playing DLR at all?

 

[Uchi Mata]

I've tried that one, but I feel really unsafe hugging one grip with both arms. Also, I figured out it only works when I sit completely upright. Is that the correct way to do it?

Can you please give me some more details?

Sitting upright is a legit way to do it. Hugging one grip with both arms is usually not necessary, if you loop your arm around one grip and sit back hard, it's pretty unlikely he's going to be able to hold on. It's basically your posterior chain vs. his grip, which is not a battle many guys will win from the gripping side. Do it fast and it's perfectly safe, even if you have to go two on one. But don't expect to be able to sit around, playing open guard requires a sense of urgency.

Frankly, if you don't have a good grip on the guy and you're in open guard and he's standing, you better be sitting up anyway or he's just going to waltz around your guard. If you already have sleeve grips or sleeve and collar and he gets bullfight grips, going two on one on one of his sleeves and simultaneously pulling his sleeve and kicking your leg should do it. It's very safe, just make sure you keep your other leg in his hip or opposite bicep. But again, you have to do all this very fast, whoever wins the grip battle in open guard typically will get what they want, sweeps on bottom and passes from the top.

 

[Calibur]

Obviously goal 1 is to not let him get the grip. Step 2 is to switch your grip to something else. I usually grab their collar and drag it.

But theirs basic leg retention that I rarely seen shown. I'll talk about it later if no one brings it up.

 

[bjjaz]

I'm interested in it...

 

[100%Jiu-Jitsu]

There are many different ways to approach the situation, depending on what kind of guard you want to play.

You said you usually start playing spider guard. That's a completely valid response. High level spider guard players will offer their opponents knee grips in order to initiate double sleeve control.

One solution to your problem would be to just improve your spider guard. Someone else mentioned how you can kick off grips when playing spider. That's an important technique for improving your control of the opponent and generating offense.

But it sounds like you are also losing the more fundamental struggle to keep your feet on the biceps when playing spider. Your opponent has to clear at least one of your feet before he can initiate a bullfighter pass.

You need to ask yourself how that is happening.

Are they bumping their hips forward and knocking your feet off with stacking pressure? If so, make sure to keep some bend in your knee when playing spider guard.

Are they just walking backwards, pulling your feet to the ground? If so, you need to practice taking an angle with your hips by extending your leg on the side you want to turn towards. Staying squared up with spider guard = getting passed.

 

[Momonga]

There are many different ways to approach the situation, depending on what kind of guard you want to play.

You said you usually start playing spider guard. That's a completely valid response. High level spider guard players will offer their opponents knee grips in order to initiate double sleeve control.

One solution to your problem would be to just improve your spider guard. Someone else mentioned how you can kick off grips when playing spider. That's an important technique for improving your control of the opponent and generating offense.

But it sounds like you are also losing the more fundamental struggle to keep your feet on the biceps when playing spider. Your opponent has to clear at least one of your feet before he can initiate a bullfighter pass.

You need to ask yourself how that is happening.

Are they bumping their hips forward and knocking your feet off with stacking pressure? If so, make sure to keep some bend in your knee when playing spider guard.

Are they just walking backwards, pulling your feet to the ground? If so, you need to practice taking an angle with your hips by extending your leg on the side you want to turn towards. Staying squared up with spider guard = getting passed.

I have a problem with getting my feet pulled! Can you give me more details on countering that?

Thanks a lot, everyone, you're really helpful.

 

[100%Jiu-Jitsu]

These videos should be a good starting place for you.

 

[Ice 9 Cobra]

Not to give you information overload but you can also look to go sleeve and collar because it sounds like you're struggling to control them with double sleeve

 

[Momonga]

Not to give you information overload but you can also look to go sleeve and collar because it sounds like you're struggling to control them with double sleeve

The much stronger guys, yes.
Thanks for the videos, I'll watch them later.
Thanks, everyone, you're all very helpful.

 

[100%Jiu-Jitsu]

Your best option is to use good preventive strategies to avoid losing foot-on-bicep control. But if you do, one efficient way to defend the bullfighter pass is to make sure you keep your sleeve grip on whatever side your opponent is passing towards. Punch that grip across his body and turn towards the direction you are punching. At the same time, post your other arm on the ground for support.

By forcing his arm across his center line, you stop him from being able to stabilize the position for a moment. You can't hang out there though; you need to immediately plant your feet on the ground and do a hard, fast shrimp to recenter yourself and start playing open guard again.

 

[Momonga]

Your best option is to use good preventive strategies to avoid losing foot-on-bicep control. But if you do, one efficient way to defend the bullfighter pass is to make sure you keep your sleeve grip on whatever side your opponent is passing towards. Punch that grip across his body and turn towards the direction you are punching. At the same time, post your other arm on the ground for support.

By forcing his arm across his center line, you stop him from being able to stabilize the position for a moment. You can't hang out there though; you need to immediately plant your feet on the ground and do a hard, fast shrimp to recenter yourself and start playing open guard again.

Yeah, today I saw a video of Flavio Almeida showing the last technique you described. It seems very interesting, and it looks like a very dynamic move. I'll try it out.

However, I'd like to know how can I prevent losing the contact in the first place? Some guys just are able to pull out with brute-force very easily. What do you do as soon as he starts pulling back? I have no difficulties dealing with stacking pressure, but the opposite extreme is quite of a problem for me.

 

[BJJArsenal]

If the guy starts pulling back then move with him and take a single leg or 'idiot sweep'. Or let go off grips and start again.

Although maybe not necessary advice but as this thread is going over many fundamentals of spider I'd suggest you practise shoulder-walking while in spider. Stops people from pushing into you and creating pressure and allows you to make your own space.

 

[ILikeDogging]

I have a grip break I like -- two hands under his one and pull towards you.
I may also consider inverting.
I really like the collar drag from there too.
You can also try to get your spider hooks onto his biceps.

They are the things I'll look to do from there.

 

[100%Jiu-Jitsu]

Yeah, today I saw a video of Flavio Almeida showing the last technique you described. It seems very interesting, and it looks like a very dynamic move. I'll try it out.

However, I'd like to know how can I prevent losing the contact in the first place? Some guys just are able to pull out with brute-force very easily. What do you do as soon as he starts pulling back? I have no difficulties dealing with stacking pressure, but the opposite extreme is quite of a problem for me.

There's not a simple fix for that. If you haven't developed a very good spider guard yet, it will happen a lot. The reason I included the Caio Terra video is because it shows the swinging hip movement that you need to keep your opponent's posture disrupted, which is the primary way that you maintain foot-on-bicep control.

One other adjustment is to make sure that you have your feet high enough on the bicep that you can curl your toes a little bit over the top. Keeping your toes curled like that gives you a better grip and makes it harder to pull your feet downwards towards the mat.

Another option would be to experiment with the leg lasso, in order to keep a tight connection with your opponent:



When you strip a pants grip, you could also practice using that leg to obtain a De La Riva hook (instead of going back to foot-on-bicep or leg-lasso control). That opens up a whole new game, but it's one that will stop you from getting passed the same way you currently are.

In terms of developing your BJJ though, it might be best to keep working in your spider guard fundamentals so that you feel comfortable there before you start using the transitions to other controls as crutches. That is, of course, assuming that you want to be a spider-guard player.