Defending a Footlock/Anklelock?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Newcastle, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. Newcastle

    Newcastle Brown Belt

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    Here's a question from a newbie white belt. Last weekend I was rolling with a guy much bigger than me. He's got about 2 years experience in BJJ (off and on) and probably outweighed me by about 40lbs. He was basically having his way with me since my grappling/submission defense is pretty poor being so new to the sport.

    Anywho, I ended up on my back and slapped on a tight triangle (arm in). I thought I was in pretty good shape, although I have yet to be shown the proper technique of utilizing the triangle. More than anything, I was just trying survive on bottom. He struggled for a bit and then started crankin on my ankle. I tapped pretty quickly since I wasn't expected it nor did I have any previous knowledge to defend against it. What is the proper way to defend something like this? I do realize that if I had been applying the triangle effectively it probably would not have happened. Thoughts?
     
  2. Jiu Jitsuka

    Jiu Jitsuka A Flight And A Crash

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    Sorry I can't visualize how your ankle came into play from a triangle attempt?
     
  3. eclipse

    eclipse Blue Belt

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    he shouldnt be foot locking you or cranking on your feet knees and ankles in any way if you are a white belt.
     
  4. Newcastle

    Newcastle Brown Belt

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    I believe I had his left arm trapped into me, therefore my ankles were on the right side of his head. He used his right arm (near side to my ankles) to crank on it.

    *To the last poster, I agree that it was kind of a shitty move to pull considering my experience level but what can ya do? I just was curious how I might be able to defend in the future.
     
  5. krait

    krait Purple Belt

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    Keep your foot tucked in tight behind the knee. Also make you sure your foot is at a 90 degree angle not pointing straight out. If you point your toes straight out then it easy for him to get the leverage to twist your ankle. If it s at a 90 degree angle like when your standing on it your ankle is much more powerful and stable.

    And yes that is a pretty crappy thing to do to a whitebelt.
     
  6. Chinaboxer

    Chinaboxer Blue Belt

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    I don't agree with this at all. But just like any submission attempt, it should be done with strict control. Did you get hurt? Sounds like you didn't which means he used control and got you to tap. I don't see any problem with that. The big problem is when newbs try heel hooks or leg locks and CRANK like there's no tomorrow. But this can be said for ANY submission, such as newbs CRANKING an armbar. Does that mean remove armbar's from your submission list? Of course not. As far as rolling with beginners or experts, why would you deliberately remove any submission attempt from your repritoire?
     
  7. Newcastle

    Newcastle Brown Belt

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    That makes a lot of sense. I'm still trying to make a good habit of pointing my toes straight up ALL THE TIME when applying armbars and I'm sure I had them positioned incorrectly when I had him in the triangle.

    Funny thing is he is still a white belt himself but has tons of experience from years of rolling. Thanks a bunch for the advice.
     
  8. Big Eck

    Big Eck On the mat

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    Neither do I. I've been training with all types of leglocks since the day I started, and now that I'm a blue belt the heel hook is one of my favorite submissions. If I had just started training with them now my game would have a huge hole and it would take quite a while to get comfortable setting up the submission from different positions.

    I can understand why a school would disallow leglocks for the injury factor, but as long as the student is taught properly and trains with the right attitude injuries shouldn't be too hard to avoid. We've had more injuries due to armlocks than leglocks in our school.
     
  9. Falconry

    Falconry Yellow Belt

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    Are you involved in BJJ? It's not really about injury. The reason BJJ widely bars leg and footlocks until blue belt is so that you're forced to learn to pass guard, instead of getting frustrated that you can't pass somebody's guard and then cranking leglocks which can be hit or miss even for a good grappler. Remember that BJJ isn't catch wrestling, pro wrestling, submission wrestling, sambo, etc; "position before submission." That's what makes BJJ what it is.

    Granted, the guy was a blue belt himself so technically he was entitled to use leglocks, but it should be common sense not to do that shit to a white belt when he knows full well that the white belt hasn't really been exposed to the technique enough to know much about it. That aside, if you're a blue belt, you shouldn't need to resort to desperate leglocks to beat a whitebelt, you should be passing guard, especially if you're 40 pounds heavier. That's the bottom line I think. It's fine if a white belt gets caught by a blue belt I think, it happens, I wouldn't think any less of the blue belt if I saw that. I might think a little less of the blue belt if I saw him desperately toehold the shit out of a white belt to escape a triangle because his ego couldn't handle tapping, though.

    If it wasn't BJJ then I'd agree with you, fair enough, footlocks are all on and it's good to learn about them. But it was BJJ judging by the information given. If you're going to disregard BJJ's teachings, why even bother attending a BJJ class, why not just attend a random submission wrestling class or roll with your friends in your backyard.
     
  10. Chinaboxer

    Chinaboxer Blue Belt

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    I speak from the standpoint of No Gi and MMA grappling. My apologies, i should have stated that in my earlier post.
     
  11. Maystor

    Maystor White Belt

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    Sounds like you were locking your triangle on the wrong side. Your ankle and knee should lock above the trapped arms shoulder. This way there is no way he could grab your ankles.. as that arm of his is on your stomach/chest/thigh. (unless he is elastic and can reach it with his other hand, but as soon as he lifts his other hand you would natrually just roll over and sweep him....)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2v7GFAI_2k
     
  12. Newcastle

    Newcastle Brown Belt

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    Ahhhh, a picture errrr ummm video is worth a 1000 words. You are definitely correct that I was on the wrong side. :redface:
     
  13. Jiu Jitsuka

    Jiu Jitsuka A Flight And A Crash

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    Now I understand why I was clueless about the ankle. Sorry bro that I didn't put two and two together for you earlier.
     
  14. Maystor

    Maystor White Belt

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    Hehe.. ye.. when I first started the triangle was my favorite, I would go for it ALL the time... and I would also always mix up which way the arm would go and how my legs need to lock...

    I found that doing open guard drills just alternating applying the triangle from one side to the other like 15 times each side.. like once a week.. and you will start to do it right automatically...

    Before it became "natural" to me, it would also help me remember that the direction the opponents arm was pointing was the directions I needed to hip and head to escape to, there by default my legs had to be locked on the opposite side from which i was shifting. (hope that makes sense.. anyhow.. good luck with the JJ)
     

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