Dealing with toxic mentally ill friends

[Jack Stevonovich]

Instead of focusing on the negative aspects, which are blatant, obvious and seemingly impossible to ignore, I suppose, you should probably rather try think of any potential positives.

What good has this friend ever done to you? Does he possess some sort of redeeming qualities that keep you from abandoning him? Is the relationship sustained by more than just feelings of guilt?

I had this sort of a "talk" with a guy I know, who got in some trouble with "old friends" (a.k.a pieces of shit). At the end of the conversation he could not recall one single instance when these people did anything good to him, anything friendly to him, always just took something away from him, and tried to use him as much as they could. He cut those people off and life has been a lot better after that for the guy.

Myself, I have very little patience with people outside of my immediate family. But if you're more of a social animal then I suppose you might want to give yourself more of a chance to maintain the relationships that you have, just not at the cost of your own well-being. Do not sacrifice your sanity in order to empathize with the insane, that's only going to lead to a worse path for the both of you.

If you legit start feeling like you want to hurt this person, make him pay for what he has done to you, that's when you definitely need to walk away, because then you're no longer friends, but enemies.

I've had a similar experience with old friends in recent times.

The only way I can really rekindle a friendship with them is if I'm in an advantageous position to them where they feel less than to me. That's the position they felt they were in to me when we were really friends. When they needed a champion of sorts. They could never be the sort of friend I was to them to me because they simply aren't like me. It made me realize what petty cowards they really are.

that whole famous quote, that goes something like, If you want to see what a person is really like then give them power.

 

[TheGreatA]

I've had a similar experience with old friends in recent times.

The only way I can really rekindle a friendship with them is if I'm in an advantageous position to them where they feel less than to me. That's the position they felt they were in to me when we were really friends. When they needed a champion of sorts. They could never be the sort of friend I was to them to me because they simply aren't like me. It made me realize what petty cowards they really are.

that whole famous quote, that goes something like, If you want to see what a person is really like then give them power.

We probably have to admit that many of us humans, either consciously or not, find it difficult to hide our "predatory" qualities in social interactions. When it comes to some people, it just oozes out. They're looking for a constant "gain", and little else. All of their actions are dictated by the "power dynamic" rather than their conscience.

Can't build much of a friendship with such people, it's more of an association or a transaction.

 

[90 50]

Wow, are you judgmental or do you lack responsibility?

Sadly it’s the truth, depending on how bad it gets they can drag you down to and below their level with non stop bullshit.

I’m at the restraining order, change name legally , change phone number , rent my house out and move point almost.

should have done it a year ago, maybe even two and for sure 6 months ago.

my life is fucked because I’m a good caring person that gets fucked with constantly.

and I’ve tried ignoring the phone, they’ll just show up on the doorstep at 1:30 am crying

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

We probably have to admit that many of us humans, either consciously or not, find it difficult to hide our "predatory" qualities in social interactions. When it comes to some people, it just oozes out. They're looking for a constant "gain", and little else. All of their actions are dictated by the "power dynamic" rather than their conscience.

Can't build much of a friendship with such people, it's more of an association or a transaction.

Those 'friendships' were forged at a time where I had the choice to either join the popular racist kids and become their token minority. Or give up all the social advantages of popularity and be their, my 'old friends,' friend. I realize now they wouldn't in a million years have done the same thing for me.

 

[robotsonic]

Well to start this off one of my best friends I’ve known since I was basically born ended up killing himself due to mental illness induced by drugs.

This has caused my other friend who is both an alcoholic and has severe addictions to spiral and become a real asshole. He’s also schizoaffective meaning he’s both schizophrenic and sometimes not in control of his emotions (bipolar).

His drug abuse and mental illness has literally left the dude with an iq < 90 and when it comes to logic and basic decision making sometimes I feel like he’s literally retarded or a child.
I’d hate for him to kill himself too because I’ve known him since I was a kid but the guy fucking pisses me off to no end and I want nothing to do with him. I’m one of his only friends left that he can talk to or hang out with.

I’m a pretty selfish guy with my own goals and life and I just don’t want to see the guy anymore but he’s like a retarded child in a lot of pain and I would feel really guilty if this dude killed himself and I wasn’t there for him.

Would you guys just block him or what cuz he’s seriously not worth the worry and stress anymore. I don’t feel like I deserve to be burdened by this asshole man child. Feel real bad for his mom though

Edit: For those calling me a bad friend or whatever it’s just not true. He’s an idiot but I’ve saved him from getting his ass kicked or ko’d > 4 times in the past couple years. All fights that he started. I could have stepped back and watched him reap what he sowed but I saved his ass. I’ve stayed up all night listening to him cry or talk about his problems. He even tried to fight me a couple times but all I did was hold his drunk ass down and throw elbows to his body and arms. (And a hard crossface) He’s upkicked me and everything yet I didn’t hit him in the face once. I could have ended his life or at least gave him some damage but I just held him down and beat his body till he got tired. When he was in the psyche ward for a month, I was one of two people who visited him. I probably visited him > 5 times while the other guy saw him once. Ive only ever slapped the guy once and it was a knee jerk reaction because i was driving and he yanked my steering wheel all the way to the right and i almost hit the curb and ran into a house. Now that I think about it, that was the most effective ive ever been at settling him down. Hes like an animal that needs the fear of violence to respect you.

You aren’t getting the whole story when I talk shit about him like this

If he tried to veer your car off the road you need to drop this guy, keep giving him chances and he'll get you killed.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Not a big fan of cutting people off. I think those people that say "oh dude, you gotta be around successful people" are missing a lot. I kind of feel sorry for them. Lifting someone up is one of the most rewarding things in life.

In the same sense you should not hold on anything with him. If you think he acts like a retarded child then you should say that to him when he does.

Anyways. You talk a lot of shit about a guy you call friend and it's pretty clear that the only thing holding you in that "friendship" is guilt. You don't even like the guy, he is not your friend.
You might sound like the good guy on the surface but the whole thing is pretty selfish. There might be a reason people like that gravitate towards you.

 

[90 50]

Cut all of those friends out of your life.


For reference watch the movie CASINO

I had to do that once, not drug friends but a group of close friends from work that just drank entirely too much all the time.

we all worked together, offshore. We’d hit land and it was party for two weeks and go back out.

but I wanted more so I’d go to the shop and get equipment ready for upcoming jobs etc and trying to move up.

was holding me back and getting me in trouble with them out all the time etc.

Cut them all out only saw them off shore and occasionally at the shop and instantly started climbing the ladder at work. 17 years later all the way to the executive level.

had some other live issues with a loved one and they had problems with drugs, told them the story and they had to cut everyone that was like that out of their life and only be around ones that don’t.

they didn’t and totally destroyed their life. And ruined mine in the process.

it sounds harsh and it’s hard to do, but sometimes you have to close the door.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

I think you just need to face the reality that you aren't friends anymore.

What ever were the set of circumstances that your friendship was once based upon have changed and it sounds like your relationship with him is one where you need him around to feel better than somebody and it's not in the realm of play and with a safe word.

It just sounds toxic at this point and on both sides. I think it's important that you realize your toxic contribution here as well.

 

[ElKarlo]

Mt brother went to elementary school with this guy who was adapted. He was Korean and he and his brother went to our school. The older brother was fine. The little ones Johnny was nuts. Would always break stuff at kids houses and it was always an "accident". Saw him do it once and it definitely was on purpose.
He stated skipping class a lot in middle school. Was k to all kids of drugs.
He got sent to rehab. Escaped multiple times. Was sent to one in Costa Rica, escaped that one as well.
He ended up killing himself a fee years ago. He was at a party and played real life Russian Roulette.
Guy was smart and interesting and had good parents and a brother. No one could save him.

 

[TribalDrumz]

Mt brother went to elementary school with this guy who was adapted. He was Korean and he and his brother went to our school. The older brother was fine. The little ones Johnny was nuts. Would always break stuff at kids houses and it was always an "accident". Saw him do it once and it definitely was on purpose.
He stated skipping class a lot in middle school. Was k to all kids of drugs.
He got sent to rehab. Escaped multiple times. Was sent to one in Costa Rica, escaped that one as well.
He ended up killing himself a fee years ago. He was at a party and played real life Russian Roulette.
Guy was smart and interesting and had good parents and a brother. No one could save him.

Dam I knew a crazy Schizo Korean guy. His family tried everything to help him, I felt so sorry for them. He pulled out a knife on them a few times. He swore people were out to get him when he was outside smoking a cigarette in the middle of the night. Even knew a guy who was normal , then he started smoking weed and turned into a paranoid schizophrenic .

 

[90 50]

Well to start this off one of my best friends I’ve known since I was basically born ended up killing himself due to mental illness induced by drugs.

This has caused my other friend who is both an alcoholic and has severe addictions to spiral and become a real asshole. He’s also schizoaffective meaning he’s both schizophrenic and sometimes not in control of his emotions (bipolar).

His drug abuse and mental illness has literally left the dude with an iq < 90 and when it comes to logic and basic decision making sometimes I feel like he’s literally retarded or a child.
I’d hate for him to kill himself too because I’ve known him since I was a kid but the guy fucking pisses me off to no end and I want nothing to do with him. I’m one of his only friends left that he can talk to or hang out with.

I’m a pretty selfish guy with my own goals and life and I just don’t want to see the guy anymore but he’s like a retarded child in a lot of pain and I would feel really guilty if this dude killed himself and I wasn’t there for him.

Would you guys just block him or what cuz he’s seriously not worth the worry and stress anymore. I don’t feel like I deserve to be burdened by this asshole man child. Feel real bad for his mom though

Edit: For those calling me a bad friend or whatever it’s just not true. He’s an idiot but I’ve saved him from getting his ass kicked or ko’d > 4 times in the past couple years. All fights that he started. I could have stepped back and watched him reap what he sowed but I saved his ass. I’ve stayed up all night listening to him cry or talk about his problems. He even tried to fight me a couple times but all I did was hold his drunk ass down and throw elbows to his body and arms. (And a hard crossface) He’s upkicked me and everything yet I didn’t hit him in the face once. I could have ended his life or at least gave him some damage but I just held him down and beat his body till he got tired. When he was in the psyche ward for a month, I was one of two people who visited him. I probably visited him > 5 times while the other guy saw him once. Ive only ever slapped the guy once and it was a knee jerk reaction because i was driving and he yanked my steering wheel all the way to the right and i almost hit the curb and ran into a house. Now that I think about it, that was the most effective ive ever been at settling him down. Hes like an animal that needs the fear of violence to respect you.

You aren’t getting the whole story when I talk shit about him like this

Ive been in vary similar situations. The jerking the steering wheel, the jumping out of the car etc etc.

 

[ElKarlo]

Dam I knew a crazy Schizo Korean guy. His family tried everything to help him, I felt so sorry for them. He pulled out a knife on them a few times. He swore people were out to get him when he was outside smoking a cigarette in the middle of the night. Even knew a guy who was normal , then he started smoking weed and turned into a paranoid schizophrenic .

Sometimes people are nuts and sometimes drugs or bad experiences draws it out of them. It's always dad to see someone spiral. That Johnny guy, saw his life fall apart for the better part of a decade

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Wow, are you judgmental or do you lack responsibility?

What do you mean? I’m not necessarily taking about the mentally ill friends. They need help, of course. But the toxic ones. You know the type of friend I’m talking about. The ones who are constantly dragging you down into their bullshit, putting your life, career, housing situation in jeopardy because they can’t grow the fuck up. Those are the ones I’m talking about leaving.

If that makes me judgmental then so be it. But I have a feeling you were referring to the mentally ill part. Really, these should be two separate questions.

 

[TheLinguist]

I had to do that once, not drug friends but a group of close friends from work that just drank entirely too much all the time.

we all worked together, offshore. We’d hit land and it was party for two weeks and go back out.

but I wanted more so I’d go to the shop and get equipment ready for upcoming jobs etc and trying to move up.

was holding me back and getting me in trouble with them out all the time etc.

Cut them all out only saw them off shore and occasionally at the shop and instantly started climbing the ladder at work. 17 years later all the way to the executive level.

had some other live issues with a loved one and they had problems with drugs, told them the story and they had to cut everyone that was like that out of their life and only be around ones that don’t.

they didn’t and totally destroyed their life. And ruined mine in the process.

it sounds harsh and it’s hard to do, but sometimes you have to close the door.

Good for you and glad it worked out

 

[strebitel86]

When I'm with my unworthy friends, I always carry a bottle of champagne to smash on their heads when things get ugly.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

Not a big fan of cutting people off. I think those people that say "oh dude, you gotta be around successful people" are missing a lot. I kind of feel sorry for them. Lifting someone up is one of the most rewarding things in life.

In the same sense you should not hold on anything with him. If you think he acts like a retarded child then you should say that to him when he does.

Anyways. You talk a lot of shit about a guy you call friend and it's pretty clear that the only thing holding you in that "friendship" is guilt. You don't even like the guy, he is not your friend.
You might sound like the good guy on the surface but the whole thing is pretty selfish. There might be a reason people like that gravitate towards you.

It's the rise of "success" culture and hustle culture and is historically tied into corporate raider culture where laying off people that didn't serve a purpose and were thus redundent became normalized, a sort of proto-cancel culture. It gained popularity in the 2010's and it's reflective of that 80's culture. 90's cultural influences are going to come back though and with it harsh criticism of hustle culture, success culture, and cancel culture.

 

[A.S. Deep]

Not a big fan of cutting people off. I think those people that say "oh dude, you gotta be around successful people" are missing a lot. I kind of feel sorry for them. Lifting someone up is one of the most rewarding things in life.

In the same sense you should not hold on anything with him. If you think he acts like a retarded child then you should say that to him when he does.

Anyways. You talk a lot of shit about a guy you call friend and it's pretty clear that the only thing holding you in that "friendship" is guilt. You don't even like the guy, he is not your friend.
You might sound like the good guy on the surface but the whole thing is pretty selfish. There might be a reason people like that gravitate towards you.

Not a big fan of cutting people off. I think those people that say "oh dude, you gotta be around successful people" are missing a lot. I kind of feel sorry for them. Lifting someone up is one of the most rewarding things in life.

Agreed. In fact, much of my fiancee and I's relationship is built on building each other up

It's 100% possible to have a close knit group of winners while also making time for those you deem beneath you. Life is never an either or thing.

 

[A.S. Deep]

It's the rise of "success" culture and hustle culture and is historically tied into corporate raider culture where laying off people that didn't serve a purpose and were thus redundent became normalized, a sort of proto-cancel culture. It gained popularity in the 2010's and it's reflective of that 80's culture. 90's cultural influences are going to come back though and with it harsh criticism of hustle culture, success culture, and cancel culture.

Wish I could like this post twice.

Also, fuck success. Life's too short not to have fun be the main focus

 

[Ezekiel 25:17]

Well to start this off one of my best friends I’ve known since I was basically born ended up killing himself due to mental illness induced by drugs.

This has caused my other friend who is both an alcoholic and has severe addictions to spiral and become a real asshole. He’s also schizoaffective meaning he’s both schizophrenic and sometimes not in control of his emotions (bipolar).

His drug abuse and mental illness has literally left the dude with an iq < 90 and when it comes to logic and basic decision making sometimes I feel like he’s literally retarded or a child.
I’d hate for him to kill himself too because I’ve known him since I was a kid but the guy fucking pisses me off to no end and I want nothing to do with him. I’m one of his only friends left that he can talk to or hang out with.

I’m a pretty selfish guy with my own goals and life and I just don’t want to see the guy anymore but he’s like a retarded child in a lot of pain and I would feel really guilty if this dude killed himself and I wasn’t there for him.

Would you guys just block him or what cuz he’s seriously not worth the worry and stress anymore. I don’t feel like I deserve to be burdened by this asshole man child. Feel real bad for his mom though

Edit: For those calling me a bad friend or whatever it’s just not true. He’s an idiot but I’ve saved him from getting his ass kicked or ko’d > 4 times in the past couple years. All fights that he started. I could have stepped back and watched him reap what he sowed but I saved his ass. I’ve stayed up all night listening to him cry or talk about his problems. He even tried to fight me a couple times but all I did was hold his drunk ass down and throw elbows to his body and arms. (And a hard crossface) He’s upkicked me and everything yet I didn’t hit him in the face once. I could have ended his life or at least gave him some damage but I just held him down and beat his body till he got tired. When he was in the psyche ward for a month, I was one of two people who visited him. I probably visited him > 5 times while the other guy saw him once. Ive only ever slapped the guy once and it was a knee jerk reaction because i was driving and he yanked my steering wheel all the way to the right and i almost hit the curb and ran into a house. Now that I think about it, that was the most effective ive ever been at settling him down. Hes like an animal that needs the fear of violence to respect you.

You aren’t getting the whole story when I talk shit about him like this

I feel your pain here. Have a friend who drinks beer like it's water, literally. It makes him quite the miserable person at times and worst of all his kids and spouse suffer for it. I mean, he doesn't physically abuse them but he can get verbally aggressive and is extremely difficult to talk to or reason with in that state of mind. He's embarrassing to be around when he's like that which is most of the time, and he has stated that he uses alcohol as self medication. Even though we have had talks with him, he avoids any talk like that when he's sober and flips out when drinking. We keep our distance now, but there's not much else we can do to remedy this. He's convinced there's nothing wrong and his wife, even though we know she's fed up, doesn't want to do anything to make him leave and ruin his relationship with his kids. She pretty much sucks it up.

In the end, try to have the talk if you can, but if nothing else works, step back and keep your distance. You have your own life to live. If they are not willing to help themselves, then it's pretty much useless.

 

[Jack Stevonovich]

Wish I could like this post twice.

Also, fuck success. Life's too short not to have fun be the main focus

'fun culture' is in right now but it's tied into fake it till you make it instagram culture.

The idea for a while now has been you should love your job and if you don't love it it's because you aren't working hard enough. Workaholism culture has been normalized.

A lot of it is gonna hinge on the 'white savior' trope being associated with white liberals, and their grandstanding as a farce and racist. Once that happens it will begin to deflate the alt-right and things can finally begin to shift away from identity politics, virtue signalling and grandstanding and back to class oppression and the internalized mindset that perpetuates that oppression which is workaholism culture. I don't know how long it will take to happen though.

Workaholism culture is predicated on the idea that you should love your job, so the villain to that ideal is the person who hates their job because they feel they are being exploited. Once people feel the freedom to hate their job and openly talk about it then exploited labor becomes an acceptable topic of conversation.