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Dealing with this weird JUDO stance in class. Help, please.

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Christian Medina, Jan 11, 2006.

  1. Christian Medina

    Christian Medina Amateur Fighter

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    Alright, I posted this on another site, and I did my homework with the search function, but no good:

    I sparred with one of my judo instructors last night who received his BB from Germany. We went for like a half hour.

    Anyways, he likes to lean his entire body to his left when gripping (it's so he can launch into throws with his right hip, right?). I'm talking bending at the waist leaning. While I do a reasonable job avoiding his throw attempts, the stance is frustrating since I don't simply want to use wrestling (single legs, duck unders, take his back) or pull guard.

    Any pointers about what to do or how to set him up? Are there any judo takedowns he exposes himself to? I guess if I was slick, I could fireman's carry his right leg?

    The guy outweighs me by 20-30 lbs, so its hard for me to simply pull him back upright.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. ShadowNINku

    ShadowNINku SANDBAGGER BELT

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    you pull towards your left, I used and over under clinch in my first Judo class and you keep your weight on your left arm as well as you hold on the the sleeve, getting double legs will be tough
     
  3. Steeltwo

    Steeltwo Green Belt

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    sumi gaeshi I think is how it is spelled would work well.

    that stance you see alot in the olympics. i've seen a uhcimata work well.
     
  4. QingTian

    QingTian Purple Belt

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    while I could suggest some techniques, you should note that the guy probably fought this way for a long time, and in contests, so he'd have seen a lot of counters as far as techniques go. you'll just have to be a better fighter than him. if he leans over, pull his ass down, make him react and move. you can't play his game. which is what exactly his stance is, a game to make you react the way he wants.

    you can mix it up with single handed throws, or extreme right sided throws of your own. circle to the left (not in hip range tho) to make him move.

    actually, just move and just stand there.

    if you are a lefty, uchimata would be golden, however.
     
  5. Soulfly

    Soulfly Guest

  6. Cojofl

    Cojofl Brown Belt

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    Firstly I agree with QingTian, if the guy is experienced there isn't a lot you can do.

    What sort of gripping was he doing? How he distributing his weight? Is he right handed or a lefty?

    Try working ashiwaza combinations.

    If he keeps his left foot foward, try hiza guruma.

    Also try the armdrag style sumi gaeshi.
     
  7. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot Yellow Card

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    Europeans have been incorporating a lot of wrestling and unorthodox stances/grips in their Judo. You will be hard pressed to counter him. What I suggest is to try the same thing on him and see what HE DOES TO YOU.

    However, I use a strong side grip similar to his. I am vulnerable to wrestling takedowns and over-the-back style gripping. As well as left side TaiOtoshi/Harai/Uchimata. I do not know if your opponent is. But maybe...
     
  8. Christian Medina

    Christian Medina Amateur Fighter

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    Thanks for the replies, fellas. Keep them coming!

    "What sort of gripping was he doing? How he distributing his weight? Is he right handed or a lefty?"

    Pretty sure he's grabbing right sleeve (elbow/wrist-ish) and my left collar, but also since he's taller and more experience, he sometimes grabs high up on my collar (behind my head). Perhaps he's simply being a nice instructor and showing me "Hey, I could launch you from this grip right now" or it may be he gasses. Nothing against the guy, but I have youth and conditioning, but he has experience and old age treachery.

    Weight distribution? Hmm...his upper body is obviously hanging to his left (my right). Not sure about hips and legs. I'll study it next time. I am doing my best from avoiding going hip to hip unless I'm trying to set something up.

    I'm most certain he's a righty. And I'm a righty as well. And unless I pull him around, he keeps his right foot forward, which tells me he's trying to use that right hip.

    And BTW, I'm a judo noob with a few years wrestling and blue belt BJJ, so forgive me if I'm not all caught up on the throw terminology. What I'm trying to do to offset his game is attempting (faking) with some attempted singles and inside trips (which don't always work well). Is it bad etiquette to attempt wrestling leg takedowns in judo?

    Cojo, I feel comfortable with arm drags. Should I go to my left (where he's controlling lapel) or right (where he is controlling sleeve and hanging his weight).

    Yeah, I know he's better than me, but I have to keep attacking if I ever plan on learning this judo, wouldn't you think?
     
  9. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

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    I'd maintain my upright stance and grip over his shoulder onto his back and enter for uchimata ken-ken, driving his upper body (which is alrady bent over) down to the mat

    This can be combined with sumi-gaeshi as SteelTwo mentioned.

    If he stands very side on you could try for ko-soto-gari or tani-otoshi - taking him backwards but not always easy. Finaly option it a yoko-tomoenage, but you need to be really good at any tomoe to be able to pull it off.
     
  10. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

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    I forgot - hiza-guruma/sasae tsurikomigoshi are also possibilities.
     
  11. Guards

    Guards Blue Belt

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    I think most people are overlooking one of the most obvious, and Judo-minded solutions to your problem. In most Judo clubs, a standard of the opening ceremony is the statement 'One Gaeshi Masu' which means 'May we work together'. You told us that you are new to Judo, and you're sparring one of your Instructors, a black belt from Germany.

    This is the man who teaches you Judo. If you stumble in your education and grasp of Judo, he should be one of the first people you ask to assist you with your problem. Do with him as you would do during an instructional block if you found a sticking point against an opponent, something you can't work past.

    Exercise humility and ask your Sensei to teach you. At your next class, approach him when there is a free moment, and say something along the lines of 'Sensei, I had a question about our Randori(Free practice, or sparring) on Wednesday. I noticed you use a very different stance than I am used to. Can you teach me how to use this stance, and how to play against it?' Chance is that your instructor knows not only how to use his unorthodox stance to mix up his offensive and defensive options, but I believe he has also encountered many different effective counters to his stance.

    He may not be able to teach you everything about the ins and outs of something so technical while you're so young to Judo, but as an instructor it is his obligation to teach you Judo, just as it is your obligation under his tutelage to learn.
     
  12. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    Everybody is adding good comments.

    My coach does a very similar thing, but he first establishes a very strong seoi nage style grip on my right arm. He leans way to his left exactly as you're describing. His grip is so strong here that I've seen experienced people tap just from the grip and torque on the arm.

    My two "solutions" to my teachers grip.

    1) I do everything in my power to not let him get it in the first place.
    2) If I can I exactly mirror what he is doing. If he gets the grip on me, I get it on him. If he goes for a specific throw, I do the same the next moment.

    Mind you, I'm usually throughly dominated by my coach in randori, but he's most frustrated by me (in a good way) when I mirror his movements. Also, in this way I'm learning, borrowing, and sometimes stealing strategy, tactics, and techniques.
     
  13. Bubble Boy

    Bubble Boy Black Belt

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    So castigo, next time you spar, go right for your instructors grip on him.
    You'll probably see a wry smile and a "ahhh grasshopper, very good..." look in his eye just before he augers you into the mat.
     
  14. Christian Medina

    Christian Medina Amateur Fighter

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    Man, you guys are great!! There is, indeed, some good left within sherdog.

    Y'all have given me a lot to plan for next time, which may be this Saturday.

    I'll let you guys know how it goes, even though it'll probably take me a while to figure this thing out.
     
  15. Johnny Rico

    Johnny Rico Heart of a Champion

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    Soto makikomi, but if I can't get my body close enough, I go for the double sided grip with Osoto Makikomi :) Both work really well when someone favors one side.
     
  16. silverline122

    silverline122 Brown Belt

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    honestly- the person who you'd get the best advice from- is the instructor himself. First off- he's observing you firsthand. He can feel as well as see exactly what you're doing right/wrong, and afterall, he IS a blackbelt. I doubt many sherdoggers here are. To top it off, if he has 20-30 lbs on you, you don't really have much of a chance (sorry!) it's like a wrestler coming up to you with zero experience, weighing 20 lbs under you. Do you seriously think he has much of a chance?

    I would take this as a great learning experience as someday you may very well get to the level where he is currently at. It's good to learn how to spar against a highly experienced opponent and can do wonders for your games if you keep your eyes open. good luck!
     
  17. Fedoritos

    Fedoritos Banned Banned

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    Its not bad etiquette to use wrestling in judo.

    wrestling techniques are in judo. singles, doubles, firemans are very common. shoot bro, just remember when you go for singles, especially if this guy is taller then you. He will fire in on you with an uchi mata.
     
  18. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    He gives you this
    [​IMG]

    Uchimata, HAraigoshi are excellent throws from this position.

    Go for the wrestling moves if you see opening dude, they are all in judo
     
  19. nefti

    nefti Red Belt

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    Talk to him and tell him that his game gives you trouble. Also tell him that you want to give him more of a challenge and would like to be a better sparring partner for him. IF he is not an egomaniac he will give you pointers that will allow you to give him more trouble.
     
  20. fedorvsrandy

    fedorvsrandy Banned Banned

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    I dont know exactly what you are talking about, but I would say hit him with a sacrifice throw to that side when he isnt expecting it. If he truly is leaning all his weight one way, he HAS to be susceptible to some sort of sacrifice throw
     

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