Deadlift and big feet question

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Ivaylo Ivanov, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. Ivaylo Ivanov

    Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

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    Student of mine (judo and boxing) has very long and narrow feet (European size 47), while he is 180 cm and 95 kg.
    That changes his posture, making him lean a bit forward.
    Now, that's not a problem for the disciplines he competes in, because he does have a great footwork. But there is something I was wondering, regarding his S&C preparation.
    While his front squat is great (150 kg max every session, 160 kg goal by the spring), his back squat and normal deadlift are around 200 kg.
    With a trap bar though, he can go up to 225 kg.
    With a Olympic bar, as soon as he goes over 160 kg, he tends to get his hips higher in order to lift the weight off the ground.
    With the trap bar, his hips are staying low all the time.
    Is there any way to improve his Olympic bar deadlift technic?
    Thank you.
     
  2. Mumrik

    Mumrik Silver Belt

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    His feat don't weigh 100lbs and they're on the floor, so why does it change his posture a bit that his feet are longer? His center of gravity should be the same.

    Aren't most people able to lift a bit more with a trap bar?
     
  3. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    For taller, longer-legged guys, they are going to tend to be strongest at deadlift with their starting hip position a little higher. That's OK, just as long as they are doing the rest of the lift properly, e.g. not locking out the knees before achieving hip extension, not rounding the lower back.
     
  4. Ivaylo Ivanov

    Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

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    It changes the angle of your ankle a bit, so the start position for the lift is different as well. Then center of gravity is slightly off.
    Also, because of his forward leaning posture, he has developed very good posterior chain, so problem is that he should be able to lift more with the right technic.
    Yes, trap bar should be easier to lift with, but I think 10% difference is a lot. He actually can lift even more with trap bar, but his session maxes are around 225 kg.
     
  5. Ivaylo Ivanov

    Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

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    His legs are normal, its his feet that are big and narrow.
    He lifts for quite a long time with good technic.
    I want to keep his start position with low hips.
    At the moment, when he needs to push with his feet, the weight goes mainly to his heels, and not so much on his toes.
    When he distributes the weight on toes and heels, his hips go up.
     
  6. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    That's because the weight is supposed to be on the heels.

    It sounds to me like you're trying to force him to use a technique that he's not biomechanically suited for, and are erroneously blaming it on his feet. Someone's hips will be higher with deadlifts than with trap bar deadlifts/squats, and some people deadlift with higher hips than others. And if it's the technique that a person is more suited for, you can't really change it, apart from taking a bunch of weight off the bar and have them use a technique they're weaker with.
     
  7. pottro563

    pottro563 Blue Belt

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    A lot of taller people have a high ass. If it is for reps it might start to wear their back out though. I would try a stance change to see if they can sit down/back any better.
     
  8. Ivaylo Ivanov

    Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

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    Tosa, Im not trying to force him anything else but to lift heavier :)
    Any other variation of both lifts is perfect.
    As soon as he goes to back squat and conventional deadlift though, his balance is slightly off.
    Im fine with the results the guy shows. In the end of the day, he is not a powerlifter but a fighter.
    If there is no advice I could use, I will figure out something else to work with.
    Thanx anyway.
     
  9. Ivaylo Ivanov

    Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

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    For his weight class, he is not taller then other fighters.
    Its for maxes.
    He is fine with any other stance.
     
  10. Revok

    Revok Brown Belt

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    This suggests he may be standing in knee hyperextension, which would explain the difficulty he's having recruiting his hamstrings. Does he have a history of knee injuries? Shortened quads and poor ankle dorsiflexion would also support this theory.

    He should probably get a postural assessment done by a good sports physiotherapist.
     
  11. Ivaylo Ivanov

    Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

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    He has slight lordosis and no history of knee problems. A few ankle injuries, but went through rehabilitation already.
     
  12. pottro563

    pottro563 Blue Belt

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    Well if his back is not rounding fuck it. Let the guy dead lift, unless he is complaining of pain. Max lifts are not meant to be pretty or with perfect technique They are just supposed to get done. It almost sounds like you wanna correct something that isn't an issue.
     
  13. Ivaylo Ivanov

    Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

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    The difference is between this:
    [​IMG]
    and this:
    [​IMG]
    Everything that requires leaning forward and distributing the weight on his heels and toes is great (front squat, heavy good mornings, presses and etc).
    As soon as he leans back, we have a problem.
    He does judo and boxing on his toes or outer part of his feet.
    No problems with suplexing as well.
    But thanx anyway, I will figure out something else.
     
  14. Oblivian

    Oblivian Aging Platinum Member

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    I don't think his Front Squat is that great compared to his Back Squat. It seems about the normal ratio. His DL is obviously low if he's Back Squatting close to what he Deadlifts. Wait - is this person me? I have almost identical problems to this guy and my shoe size is fairly normal.
     
  15. Ivaylo Ivanov

    Ivaylo Ivanov FICW President

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    As I mentioned before- the maxes listed are working maxes, not PRs.
    Im working on improving a judo and boxing competitor strength, not powerlifter.
    And Im looking for specific adjustments to his game, which requires certain strength gain.
    Other than that, he sprints fine, his explosive lifts are also fine.
    He performs in exact the same way with 2700 meters altitude change and etc...
     

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