Darce Choke Mechanics and Arms problem.

The long and the short of it is that having shorter limbs can make certain submissions more difficult to catch or lock up but when you do lock them up they will often be easier to finish because there is so much less space in that darce or that triangle.
 
Exhale when you reach for the other arm or I'm gonna bitch slap you.
 
Colleric said:
I heard it so many times that if you have short arms just give up on Darce Choke and similiar chokes so i would like to ask if you have short arms should you go for darce or brabo or something like that?
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The life-changing darce tip for me was thinking of it as the 3rd move in a 3 move sequence: 1. Arm-in guillotine/front headlock 2. Palm-to-palm choke 3. Darce

My success rate has skyrocketed since I started doing that, as the darce is now more reliant on head control than on gangly arms, and the setups are less reliant on baiting your opponent into opening up.
 
been grappling a bit over 8 years now. Never got a darce, never been darce'd
 
trustdoesntrust said:
The life-changing darce tip for me was thinking of it as the 3rd move in a 3 move sequence: 1. Arm-in guillotine/front headlock 2. Palm-to-palm choke 3. Darce

My success rate has skyrocketed since I started doing that, as the darce is now more reliant on head control than on gangly arms, and the setups are less reliant on baiting your opponent into opening up.
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Palm-to-palm is the same as the japanese necktie?
 
Submission said:
Palm-to-palm is the same as the japanese necktie?
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sort-of, but the big difference is I'm not focused on finishing it as a Japanese necktie (though you can finish) but rather as a means to chop my partner's base and keep head control. The whole point of the "3 move sequence" idea is that you don't have to shoot your darce all the way through in one shot (which often involves gangly arms and/or baiting); the arm-in guillotine is 1/3 darce, the palm to palm is 2/3 darce, and then you're at whatever darce finish you choose.
 
trustdoesntrust said:
sort-of, but the big difference is I'm not focused on finishing it as a Japanese necktie (though you can finish) but rather as a means to chop my partner's base and keep head control. The whole point of the "3 move sequence" idea is that you don't have to shoot your darce all the way through in one shot (which often involves gangly arms and/or baiting); the arm-in guillotine is 1/3 darce, the palm to palm is 2/3 darce, and then you're at whatever darce finish you choose.
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I like this approach a lot.

Although I am long and lanky and also do a lot of baiting. So I do get a lot of straight darce catches.

I still think this 3 sequence technique is very smart.

One thing I like doing with step 2 (palm to palm) is actually not squeezing it super hard. I like "the noose goes on loose" and holding it just hard enough to keep them in place and then moving my body into position as I slide to the full darce, and then I can finish from several angles.

But the point is by not squeezing the palm to palm way too hard, it keeps your arms nice and relaxed and they don't go as crazy on the defense. Then before they know it you have the full darce.

And the beauty of your 3 step system is it works top or bottom. All 3 steps.
 
mataleaos said:
I like this approach a lot.

Although I am long and lanky and also do a lot of baiting. So I do get a lot of straight darce catches.

I still think this 3 sequence technique is very smart.

One thing I like doing with step 2 (palm to palm) is actually not squeezing it super hard. I like "the noose goes on loose" and holding it just hard enough to keep them in place and then moving my body into position as I slide to the full darce, and then I can finish from several angles.

But the point is by not squeezing the palm to palm way too hard, it keeps your arms nice and relaxed and they don't go as crazy on the defense. Then before they know it you have the full darce.

And the beauty of your 3 step system is it works top or bottom. All 3 steps.
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I wouldn't call it "my" system, but it definitely works very well. my problem forever with the darce was that it always had to be just right to work, which usually involved catching my opponent in those 'overcommitted underhook' scenarios where you can sink it right in (and even then it could be a struggle to choke without sliding into the marce). Now I only need enough space to get a loose noose (as you say) arm-in guillotine, and the progression to darce is high percentage while offering enough control to properly clear the arm and keep your opponent broken down.
 
trustdoesntrust said:
I wouldn't call it "my" system, but it definitely works very well. my problem forever with the darce was that it always had to be just right to work, which usually involved catching my opponent in those 'overcommitted underhook' scenarios where you can sink it right in (and even then it could be a struggle to choke without sliding into the marce). Now I only need enough space to get a loose noose (as you say) arm-in guillotine, and the progression to darce is high percentage while offering enough control to properly clear the arm and keep your opponent broken down.
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Yeah IMO knowing how to slide to the marce angle is basically necessary to make the choke work unless you're very committed to working the palm to palm sequence.

I like going to the marce angle voluntarily. JUst because I feel like that's the cleanest choking angle. But I like doing it how John Danaher and Ryan Hall advocate. Instead of sliding in I like to go palm to palm with the series you like. Then lock the RNC grip. Then trap a leg (either one) and roll over them onto my hip. You can catch the leg during the roll but too.

 
mataleaos said:
Yeah IMO knowing how to slide to the marce angle is basically necessary to make the choke work unless you're very committed to working the palm to palm sequence.

I like going to the marce angle voluntarily. JUst because I feel like that's the cleanest choking angle. But I like doing it how John Danaher and Ryan Hall advocate. Instead of sliding in I like to go palm to palm with the series you like. Then lock the RNC grip. Then trap a leg (either one) and roll over them onto my hip. You can catch the leg during the roll but too.

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What do you do when they flatten out and become difficult to get out of that sprawled out turtle position? I normally switch to arm in g but I'm wondering if there's a way to salvage the darce.

Also I remember you telling me once that on better guys, you have to snatch a leg to get the anaconda to work. I found the same to be true for the darce - maybe not for you?

I have zero confidence with the marce as well. It just doesn't feel secure to chase or finish. I'll keep working on it.
 
Drysdale shows a lot about how he finishes darces here.


(marce-like positions around 21:00)
 
asian-glow said:
What do you do when they flatten out and become difficult to get out of that sprawled out turtle position? I normally switch to arm in g but I'm wondering if there's a way to salvage the darce.

Also I remember you telling me once that on better guys, you have to snatch a leg to get the anaconda to work. I found the same to be true for the darce - maybe not for you?

I have zero confidence with the marce as well. It just doesn't feel secure to chase or finish. I'll keep working on it.
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Yeah, for any front head and arm style choke (darce, anaconda, and even guillotines) I always try to catch a leg if not the hip. If you catch the hip you can end up with the mount or closed guard sometimes, but having lower body control is very important. It keeps them from making space and you can also back-heel to add to the finishing pressure.

When someone is flattened out do you mean you have the front headlock or the 3/4 nelson vice grip and they go all the way prone/belly down so that it's hard to flip them down or pull them off base? If so you've basically lost the flip-down at that point, but you can still slide in and finish. If you aren't comfortable with that, switching to a guillotine is a great option, as is disconnecting your grip to reconnect as you and attack back mount. I really wish we could train. I really think I could help these problems in like 15 mins.

You could also keep the 3/4 vice grip and step in between their legs (as they're face down) and try diving over their back for a Japanese necktie. I'm not very good at those but I have seen people do them from there.
 
MaxMMA said:
Look up The Japanese necktie... so many darce vaders running around these days but no one's using the necktie... which goes hand in hand with the darce.
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Instead of using a reg cable grip . pass your thumb between the index and middle finger of the other hand for the jap necktie.
 
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