Dana: "Maybe Fedor was the best in the world. I don't know."

[mjbogrand]

While I admit guys like Serra and Spratt aren't much to brag about, Sherk, Fitch, Shields, Penn, Hughes, Condit and Alves were all rated top 10 p4p

Fedor did fight some great names but out of his 35 wins there's no denying a lot of which were not exactly A+ fighters

Yap yap yap yap yap

OK look at the second to the last line you put up

"out of his 35 wins"
Who else has done this? It does not matter what the competition was. 35 wins with guys that hit like freight trains....at their worst. Who would have even tried to fight that 400# Korean? or that 600# African?

Every time a heavy weight gets into the ring he has the chance of getting destroyed.Just because of the strength of the weight class.
Most would have declined those fights because they didn't want the risk

Fedor made it through 36 fights? with one loss because of cuts to his fat face.NOBODY else came close
How many fighters of any kind have done this?

Go watch Feor's highlights and anyone else's.Then come back and tell me who has more heart and who the GOAT is
Nobody fought with so much total disregard for himself as Fedor did.
GSP? That makes me laugh

 

[Peregrine01]

Emotions run high when it comes to Fedor for a variety of reasons, to the point of full on delusion. At the end of his career, Fedor was incapable of hanging with modern, elite HW's. Luckily, he didn't even bump up against the best of the best.

He didn't get stopped three times in a row by accident, he got stopped three times in a row because he fought dangerous guys without a break or favorable matchup in between.

As soon as he went back to fighting lesser men, he finished his career with W's.

If you don't evaluate things with context, then you're living in a state of delusion.

Fighters are not the same in every single fight. Take Cain for example. How can you possibly argue that the Cain that fought Junior the first time is the same one that fought Junior the second time? Hell no - he was tentative, he wasn't pushing the pace like he needed to and he got knocked out because of it. Quite simply, he had a bad performance.

It's obvious from seeing Fedor's three losses that he was too aggressive and too focused on taking the other guy's head off with the expectation of having another quick night. It's also obvious that he switched his strategy after his three losses. He was far more methodical - even when he had the other guy hurt.

I would say that that version of Fedor is far better than the one that fought Werdum, BF and Hendo. In fact, I think those are the three worst performances of his career. You, on the other hand, imply in your post that it isn't even possible to have variance in fighter performances.

If you don't analyze things with nuance then you're missing a huge part of the game.

 

[rjmbrd]

If you don't evaluate things with context, then you're living in a state of delusion.

Fighters are not the same in every single fight. Take Cain for example. How can you possibly argue that the Cain that fought Junior the first time is the same one that fought Junior the second time? Hell no - he was tentative, he wasn't pushing the pace like he needed to and he got knocked out because of it. Quite simply, he had a bad performance.

^^ let me stop you there.

Had Cain gone on to get submitted and then destroyed in a TKO that made his face look like a horror show, people would no longer hold him in the same esteem.

This is where your argument turns into nonsense. Fedor didn't have an off night and get caught. He got submitted, TKO'd and knocked out in succession, then proceeded to run back to Russia for good.

There is nobody - NO ONE - in our sport that could survive three definitive losses of that variety, all together, and keep a fan base that holds them up to be losing for some such other reason, other than no longer being capable of hanging with the elite.

Like I said, Fedor fans come saddled with emotion.

 

[CageSage]

Dos Santos summarily knocked out Werdum, and I find it entirely likely he does it a second time should they meet again. Cain would also be a very heavy betting favorite over Werdum.

I couldn't make out your sentence about Monson, but everyone here will agree he's not a meaningful win for Fedor at the time he fought him.

Cain would not be a big betting favorite over Werdum, and Werdum has grown leaps and bounds since the Fedor fight. Werdum is a completely different fighter than in his first UFC stint when he was out of shape and didn't have shit for striking. His ground game is still untouchable but he has the standup and confidence to deal with any sort of other threats standing. He went three rounds with Alistair standing with ease, and even then he was still up to his extremely tentative bjj oriented game. Lesnar was cowering in the corner within like a minute with Alistair.

 

[scrap style**]

Fedor VS Brock was a joke fight

This fight would have been HUGE. Nothing's funny about money.

 

[ShagginTurtles]

"out of his 35 wins"
Who else has done this? It does not matter what the competition was. 35 wins with guys that hit like freight trains....at their worst

Is Dan Severn the undisputed GOAT using that logic?

 

[Peregrine01]

^^ let me stop you there.

Had Cain gone on to get submitted and then destroyed in a TKO that made his face look like a horror show, people would no longer hold him in the same esteem.

This is where your argument turns into nonsense. Fedor didn't have an off night and get caught. He got submitted, TKO'd and knocked out in succession, then proceeded to run back to Russia for good.

There is nobody - NO ONE - in our sport that could survive three definitive losses of that variety, all together, and keep a fan base that holds them up to be losing for some such other reason, other than no longer being capable of hanging with the elite.

Like I said, Fedor fans come saddled with emotion.

Lol. I'm trying to debate this point with you as objectively as I can.

You didn't actually refute my point, which is basically this: can fighters have poor performances? And if so, what are the reasons behind the poor performances?

Cain had a poor performance and he lost decisively. On the other hand, Fedor had three straight poor performances and lost decisively in all three.

In both Cain's loss and Fedor's losses, there are reasons that we can conjecture for why it happened.

Now, this is my thinking: Cain fought poorly because he didn't pressure Junior and stood right in front of him for too long. He succintly corrected that in the second fight and dominated. Do you agree?

Fedor fought poorly in large part due to his over-aggression and generally poor game-planning. He tried to rebound from his losses but continued to fight the same way. He finally switched his approach after his three losses and showed far more restraint and control. Although he fought less-talented fighters, I think he performed far better in those three wins than in his three losses. Do you agree?

Everything else is purely hypothetical. I maintain that if Fedor fought like he did in his last three wins, he can still be a major threat in the HW division. That is simply my opinion, and one that I draw on as objectively as I can. But the fact that you are so quick to dismiss my points without even logically rebutting them while labeling me as an "emotional and deluded Fedor fan" point to a very obvious bias of your own.

 

[Jolomies]

I guess the UFC is close to doing a show in Russia and want Fedor to be in the audience.

 

[Jermei]

Starts at the 46 minute mark

 

[OnePunchWhiskey]

I remember reading that they signed him and raved about it with my girlfriend and one of her friends while we were driving around town. They tried to change the subject but I kept on going on about how great a fight this was going to be and the different scenarios that could happen lol. I really wanted to see that fight. @#$%

 

[MMAEXP3RT]

How was RAW this week?

lol you're still mad... understandable.

 

[markg171]

Cain would not be a big betting favorite over Werdum, and Werdum has grown leaps and bounds since the Fedor fight. Werdum is a completely different fighter than in his first UFC stint when he was out of shape and didn't have shit for striking. His ground game is still untouchable but he has the standup and confidence to deal with any sort of other threats standing. He went three rounds with Alistair standing with ease, and even then he was still up to his extremely tentative bjj oriented game. Lesnar was cowering in the corner within like a minute with Alistair.

Zombie Big Nog kicked Werdum's ass standing not even 4 months ago...

And Werdum did not stand with Overeem with ease. He got knocked down or rocked every time he stood with Overeem and engaged him for any length of time

Werdum's striking has gotten so overrated since he "outstruck" Overeem and kept things technical against a wild brawler in Nelson and a grappler in Russow

 

[PRIDEWASBETTER]

How was RAW this week?

It sucked.

 

[ilfirin]

Exactly, Brock would have destroyed him.

No.

 

[MrHoost**]

Dana White is a joke.

 

[LoopingRight]

What's with these 2011 blue belt Lesnar avs? Bet they posted on here 20+ times a day til Reem horse-kicked him in the colon.

Colon kick. A perfect companion to the beloved liver punch.

 

[MartialPopTarts]

Fedor is getting his respect.

 

[rjmbrd]

Cain would not be a big betting favorite over Werdum, and Werdum has grown leaps and bounds since the Fedor fight. Werdum is a completely different fighter than in his first UFC stint when he was out of shape and didn't have shit for striking. His ground game is still untouchable but he has the standup and confidence to deal with any sort of other threats standing. He went three rounds with Alistair standing with ease, and even then he was still up to his extremely tentative bjj oriented game. Lesnar was cowering in the corner within like a minute with Alistair.

I've concluded you've not watched that fight.

 

[BruceLeeOnTRT]

To all the people shitting on a great fighter and person...

enjoy listening to idiots trash your current fav fighters legacy 5-10 years from now

 

[CageSage]

Zombie Big Nog kicked Werdum's ass standing not even 4 months ago...

And Werdum did not stand with Overeem with ease. He got knocked down or rocked every time he stood with Overeem and engaged him for any length of time

Werdum's striking has gotten so overrated since he "outstruck" Overeem and kept things technical against a wild brawler in Nelson and a grappler in Russow

Zombie Big Nog got submitted, lets refresh

Referee Mario Yamasaki is the third man in the cage for tonight