Dana may be protecting Aspinall and Poatan from Jon Jones

[NenadRS]

It is hard to predict how wrestling would go against Alex, for sure got somewhat better, and has good reach (which also helps to defend against Jones wrestling).

Sometimes Jones cannot take down fighters with average wrestling (Gustafsson 1, Reyes, Santos), but than some times he does it easily Gustafsson 2, Stipe now.

I wonder what changed between Gustafsson 1 and 2 fight, was Jones better or Gustafsson worse.

 

[usernamee]

It is hard to predict how wrestling would go against Alex, for sure got somewhat better, and has good reach (which also helps to defend against Jones wrestling).

Sometimes Jones cannot take down fighters with average wrestling (Gustafsson 1, Reyes, Santos), but than some times he does it easily Gustafsson 2, Stipe now.

I wonder what changed between Gustafsson 1 and 2 fight, was Jones better or Gustafsson worse.

Gustafsson was WAY worse dawg. He was done mentally and had just come back from a groin injury and a collarbone injury (collarbone ripped off the bone completely)

And Gustafsson wrestling is nothing to scoff at anyways. Before his first fight with Jones, Frank Mir was raving about Gus because he had seen him at the gym for a week or so, ragdolling much bigger guys that he knew were legit grapplers.

Remember Gus was the first to take down Jones and he also took DC down. (Think only other guy at that point who had taken down DC was Jones) He also had several other fights he utilized wrestling effectively.

 

[mkess101]

Yeah and JJ couldn't take Reyes down... Nor Gustaffson. They weren't wrestlers, like Poatan, they trained their takedown defense a lot to avoid it. It's not easy, but Reyes hasn't a wrestling background. He still did it. So yeah... Not to mention, takedown defense isn't the only way to avoid getting taken down... Calf kicks that have strong effects are proving as a challenge to, jabs that change levels... Striking is also being used to avoid it.

Eh, if you want to leave the conversation, just leave. Seeing as you're getting frustrated, it seems you haven't really anything of substance to add anyways.

Jones took both Reyes and Gustaffson down LOL. **face palm**

And both those guys started training all aspects of MMA early on, not AFTER a full kickboxing career when they were in their mid 30's!

You're flailing around grasping for lifelines to try to claim that Alex Perreria might pose as big a challenge in the grappling department as Tom Aspinall to Jones. It's a cosmically stupid take, one that I find hard to believe that you even buy into yourself.

If you wanna say Poatan is a more dangerous and varied striker and that could give Jones more problems than Aspinall's striking...okay. I'd disagree, but it's at least a reasonable take. What you're claiming is so absurd, no serious person who follows the sport would ever entertain it. They'd just laugh, which is what I've done a couple times during this exchange.

 

[Iroh]

They will protect Poatan from him and that's actually proctection I can get behind. They want Aspinall to beat JJ so the torch gets passed, which is the best case scenario for the UFC.

 

[Hdfi]

Think about it... Poatan was open to face JJ before, as was JJ to face Poatan... that'd be in terms of ppv the biggest one, maybe only behind Connor vs Khabib. That'd be a huge money.

And he hasn't been so vocal about JJ needing to face Aspinall. He's "I'd like to", but he's very "whatever" to it... unlike when Jon Jones was still not a HW but planning a move up and Dana, upon money demands from JJ (and JJ, as Nagnnou later on, were totally right) said JJ was scared to fight Ngannou... until the situation inverted and he flipped the narrative when Ngannou developed the same knowledge. Both there were up to fight but both wanted more money. JJ got satisfied with the increase Dana provided and accepted to fight Ngannou. Meanwhile, Ngannou got more of an understanding of what toll from the fighters that fighting demands and wasn't (and rightfully so) satisfied with his payment as HW, and had the means to make more money in other sports. JJ not so much as he can't box with boxers as he doesn't have very big ko power, he doesn't have a profitable fighting sport aside from mma...

But now, Dana knows Jones is gonna retire without a doubt if he defeats Aspinall. It's not the JJ that he envisioned going to the UFC and doing many HW fights.

So Poatan and Pereira are the most active fighters rn, two very big natural talents... that are likely too much for their own division, so he likely wants to see their activity and make them win as many fights as they can to sell PPV and possibly set up in, like, 2 years from now, the big Poatan vs Aspinall match...

Though JJ is a problem, because he isn't gonna stick to UFC more, so if he beats Poatan or Aspinall, their invincible aura rn gets tarnished. He doesn't want Jon Jones to defeat the upcoming big stars (Aspinall is still rising)... in order to not take their auras. He may be "uh, JJ is gonna fight either of these two, not both, he's going to either beat Poatan or beat Aspinall as he's just ahead in every sense when it comes to mma, so I don't want a fighter that's gonna retire to take away from the upcoming stars".

It all makes a lot of sense!! Dana is actually protecting the new heavy challenges from Jon Jones!

At least that makes sense logically lol you can't deny that

Why doesn't he promote Aspinall as the undisputed champion if he wants to protect him? And why did he make Aspinall defend the interim belt against a legitimate dangerous contender (Curtis Blaydes), while letting Jones choose an easy gimmick (50 year old Miocic)?

He is clearly protecting JONES, not Aspinall.

 

[mkess101]

It is hard to predict how wrestling would go against Alex, for sure got somewhat better, and has good reach (which also helps to defend against Jones wrestling).

Sometimes Jones cannot take down fighters with average wrestling (Gustafsson 1, Reyes, Santos), but than some times he does it easily Gustafsson 2, Stipe now.

I wonder what changed between Gustafsson 1 and 2 fight, was Jones better or Gustafsson worse.

By most accounts, Jones wasn't taking things all too seriously for multiple fights (Reyes, Santos, Lionheart). I don’t think that necessarily applies to Gus 1, I think he was plain caught off guard by Gus being a bit better at using his own length than Jon thought he'd be. He had a lot better read on how to get to his hips in the rematch.

The thing about a fight with Alex is that Jones will now have had 2 fights at HW and knows how his body will feel, move, etc. Alex was fighting at 185 just 2 years ago. And now we think a kickboxer who's only been grappling a few years is gonna stop the wrestling of Jones...and do it in what will presumably be Pereira's first fight at HW? Cannot buy that at all.

 

[NenadRS]

Hw vs Lhw experience does not matter much, it is all the same, Alex is 220-230, Jones the same, those are minor weight differences of 5-10lbs, and in HW you just gain speed advantage compared to heavier HW fighters and also no need to go through torture of weight cutting.

By most accounts, Jones wasn't taking things all too seriously for multiple fights (Reyes, Santos, Lionheart).

I do not believe this is true at all - he had to be more careful with PEDS in those fights (vs DC he went all in), he prepares a lot for every fighter, he does not take short notice against anyone.
That talk about partying week before fight vs Gus or any other fighter does not matter, it has no significance.

He was scared to fight Sonnen on short notice and you think he took (Reyes, Santos, Lionheart) lightly, no way.

 

[mkess101]

Hw vs Lhw experience does not matter much, it is all the same, Alex is 220-230, Jones the same, those are minor weight differences of 5-10lbs, and in HW you just gain speed advantage compared to heavier HW fighters and also no need to go through torture of weight cutting.

I do not believe this is true at all - he had to be more careful with PEDS in those fights (vs DC he went all in), he prepares a lot for every fighter, he does not take short notice against anyone.
That talk about partying week before fight vs Gus or any other fighter does not matter, it has no significance.

He was scared to fight Sonnen on short notice and you think he took (Reyes, Santos, Lionheart) lightly, no way.

I don't know, it's just what was leaked. Could be bullshit...but he damn sure looked disinterested in those fights.

 

[Luffy]

Jones took both Reyes and Gustaffson down LOL. **face palm**

And both those guys started training all aspects of MMA early on, not AFTER a full kickboxing career when they were in their mid 30's!

You're flailing around grasping for lifelines to try to claim that Alex Perreria might pose as big a challenge in the grappling department as Tom Aspinall to Jones. It's a cosmically stupid take, one that I find hard to believe that you even buy into yourself.

If you wanna say Poatan is a more dangerous and varied striker and that could give Jones more problems than Aspinall's striking...okay. I'd disagree, but it's at least a reasonable take. What you're claiming is so absurd, no serious person who follows the sport would ever entertain it. They'd just laugh, which is what I've done a couple times during this exchange.

Show me when Gustaffson started training takedown defense, as well as Reyes. Show me the time they had been preparing for it. I will wait.

 

[mkess101]

Show me when Gustaffson started training takedown defense, as well as Reyes. Show me the time they had been preparing for it. I will wait.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Gustaffson had his first pro MMA fight in 2007 when he was 20 years old. A fight he won by submission. Is your argument that he was not training grappling prior to that??
Dom Reyes had his first amateur MMA fight in 2013 when he was 21 years old. While he won...also by submission.

You're actually arguing these guys weren't training TDD (and grappling overall) before they took actual fights???

Alex Perreira lost his first pro fight at 28 years old...by submission. And he continued his kickboxing career until just 3 years ago and had his last kickboxing fight only 2 months before his UFC debut. So he wasn't even solely focused on MMA training until 3 years ago!!

Are you tired of getting dunked on yet?

 

[Luffy]

Are you fucking kidding me?

Gustaffson had his first pro MMA fight in 2007 when he was 20 years old. A fight he won by submission. Is your argument that he was not training grappling prior to that??
Dom Reyes had his first amateur MMA fight in 2013 when he was 21 years old. While he won...also by submission.

You're actually arguing these guys weren't training TDD (and grappling overall) before they took actual fights???

Alex Perreira lost his first pro fight at 28 years old...by submission. And he continued his kickboxing career until just 3 years ago and had his last kickboxing fight only 2 months before his UFC debut. So he wasn't even solely focused on MMA training until 3 years ago!!

Are you tired of getting dunked on yet?

He has been training grappling with Glover more intensively ever since 2019. He had already trained grappling for the 2015 MMA debut. So it's not like in 2019 he had never trained it. So it's been more than 5 years of grappling training, plus the fact that it's been openly said by DC that Alex Pereira learns wrestling very quickly, that his improvement time rate is exceptional, the same said by Charles when both trained Jiu Jitsu. So there is not a lot of difference between Reyes and Alex Pereira, actually. Prochazka got the better of Reyes on the ground and not only survived many of Glover's ground game but got a submission win over Glover. In their second fight, Procazka could not even take Alex Pereira down when he tried, Alex Pereira defended it perfectly, unlike in their first match. And even then, Alex Pereira managed to get back up to his feet more easily than Reyes did when Prochazka was on top of him.

So you should ask yourself since you're the one getting dunked, unless you're trolling?

 

[mkess101]

He has been training grappling with Glover more intensively ever since 2019. He had already trained grappling for the 2015 MMA debut. So it's not like in 2019 he had never trained it. So it's been more than 5 years of grappling training, plus the fact that it's been openly said by DC that Alex Pereira learns wrestling very quickly, that his improvement time rate is exceptional, the same said by Charles when both trained Jiu Jitsu. So there is not a lot of difference between Reyes and Alex Pereira, actually. Prochazka got the better of Reyes on the ground and not only survived many of Glover's ground game but got a submission win over Glover. In their second fight, Procazka could not even take Alex Pereira down when he tried, Alex Pereira defended it perfectly, unlike in their first match. And even then, Alex Pereira managed to get back up to his feet more easily than Reyes did when Prochazka was on top of him.

So you should ask yourself since you're the one getting dunked, unless you're trolling?

You keep using this ridiculous MMA math making these moronic "observations" that are trash. So no, it's absolutely you getting dunked on. Over and over. And then reverting to random quotes "DC said he's really good and picks things up well!" Have you ever listened to DC talk about fighters during their walk to the cage? He raves about ALL of them. FFS man.

Did you even watch Jiri/Glover for example? Glover was a CORPSE when Jiri sunk in that choke. Literally anyone with a pulse could've subbed him there, he was too exhausted to even move. That had NOTHING to do with grappling skills.

Alex is athletic enough to survive the grappling of some guys. Fucking duh LOL.

You're honestly too clueless to argue with if you think Alex poses anywhere near the challenge with his grappling that Aspinall does. Like...even others who like Alex better or think he's a better fighter would say you're an idiot with this take. And because you're stubborn, instead of just backing down you're doubling and tripling down on your stupidity.

 

[Croo67]

If he is, then he's incredibly stupid and should learn from boxing that it isn't a good business model.