DAMAGE is now the main criteria for 10-8 rounds

If this is still about BJM's 2017 change, damage (or cumulative) has applied to all rounds, 10-9's as well, given the commissions who apply it, since then.

If it's so, and it's still talked about as a "new thing" almost 5 years later, it shows more that all commissions should apply the same rules for clarity.
 
I think it's difficult to have "damage" as a criteria.

#1) it's the ref's job to keep fighters from taking too much damage.

#2) some fighters take more visible damage than others. For example, you just have to look at Nate Diaz funny and he will start bleeding

#3) it's not a great look for a mainstream sport to reward damage specifically
 
Fighter A outlands fighter B 100 strikes to 3 but you don't see fighter B wobbled.

Fighter A Iis wobbled for a second....

10-8 round for fighter b... sounds about right....

I doubt they'd score it like that for fighter B. But they may score 10-9 for fighter A instead of 10-8.

They aren't ignoring strikes landed.
 
Fighter A outlands fighter B 100 strikes to 3 but you don't see fighter B wobbled.10-8 round for fighter b... sounds about right....

Nah, damage is not the ONLY criteria, just the most important. In your scenario, if the fight was much closer, like 100 strikes to 90, but B landed the harder strikes, wobbled fighter A, etc, that would be a 10-8 round.
 
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More 10-8s is NOT a good thing. How anyone can think that is beyond me

I don't see a problem. You get a 10-8 in boxing if you knock someone down. If you clearly win a round in MMA and get a 10-8, that might make the other person fight harder. Meanwhile if you are cruising past them with 10-8s, they shouldn't be in there with you in the first place. I don't really see how it hurts anything as long as the judges are consistent and know how to score them.

The inconsistent judging is the problem.
 
That's how it always should have been.
 
It's effective grappling and Octagon control. There's an order of importance as far as judging criteria goes, and if there is no striking, the next priority is effective grappling. You believe the guy unsuccessfully spamming takedowns should be rewarded? That shit's weak.

Effective striking
Effective grappling
Aggression
Octagon control

The guy continuously defending the takedowns is demonstrating a higher level of success and effectiveness in 2 out of 3 applicable criteria. If, by chance, there are zero strikes thrown, and that particular round was a grappling match, as we are hypothetically discussing, then yes. 100% the guy defending those takedowns should take the round. You're claiming the guy spamming takedowns should win the round on aggression only? Despite it being only the 2nd highest priority and 33% of the applicable judging? Shit's weak, man.
You are misunderstanding the rules, the first criterion is not "effective striking," it's "effective striking/effective grappling." There are only 3 levels, not 4.

In a hypothetical grappling-only match, if one guy is only defending takedowns and doing nothing else, he is not generating any offense of his own. Offense is what scores so how can he win the round? Best case scenario it's a drawn round.

Yes in a fight where one guy is repeatedly taking desperate shots and his opponent just stuffs them easily and circles back out to kicking range you could say the guy defending the takedowns is controlling the octagon because he is dictating where the fight takes place, however, octagon control is unlikely to decide a round.

In a hypothetical striking-only round where Fighter A throws 100 strikes and misses all of them because Fighter B has amazing striking defense, but Fighter B throws nothing back, how can Fighter B win the round? Defense is supposed to be its own reward.

That said the scoring criteria say judges are supposed to take into account changes to a fighter's fighting spirit, energy levels, etc., so if Fighter B causes Fighter A to get frustrated and gas out, just by dodging his strikes or defending his takedowns, I think Fighter B could *theoretically* win. It's just unlikely.
 
You are misunderstanding the rules, the first criterion is not "effective striking," it's "effective striking/effective grappling." There are only 3 levels, not 4.

In a hypothetical grappling-only match, if one guy is only defending takedowns and doing nothing else, he is not generating any offense of his own. Offense is what scores so how can he win the round? Best case scenario it's a drawn round.

Yes in a fight where one guy is repeatedly taking desperate shots and his opponent just stuffs them easily and circles back out to kicking range you could say the guy defending the takedowns is controlling the octagon because he is dictating where the fight takes place, however, octagon control is unlikely to decide a round.

In a hypothetical striking-only round where Fighter A throws 100 strikes and misses all of them because Fighter B has amazing striking defense, but Fighter B throws nothing back, how can Fighter B win the round? Defense is supposed to be its own reward.

That said the scoring criteria say judges are supposed to take into account changes to a fighter's fighting spirit, energy levels, etc., so if Fighter B causes Fighter A to get frustrated and gas out, just by dodging his strikes or defending his takedowns, I think Fighter B could *theoretically* win. It's just unlikely.
I tried to tell him that he's basically saying that if MMA was basketball you should get points for getting steals and blocks.

The reward of defense is denying whatever your opponent tried to do. But it's your opponent making you do that.
 
You are misunderstanding the rules, the first criterion is not "effective striking," it's "effective striking/effective grappling." There are only 3 levels, not 4.

In a hypothetical grappling-only match, if one guy is only defending takedowns and doing nothing else, he is not generating any offense of his own. Offense is what scores so how can he win the round? Best case scenario it's a drawn round.

Yes in a fight where one guy is repeatedly taking desperate shots and his opponent just stuffs them easily and circles back out to kicking range you could say the guy defending the takedowns is controlling the octagon because he is dictating where the fight takes place, however, octagon control is unlikely to decide a round.

In a hypothetical striking-only round where Fighter A throws 100 strikes and misses all of them because Fighter B has amazing striking defense, but Fighter B throws nothing back, how can Fighter B win the round? Defense is supposed to be its own reward.

That said the scoring criteria say judges are supposed to take into account changes to a fighter's fighting spirit, energy levels, etc., so if Fighter B causes Fighter A to get frustrated and gas out, just by dodging his strikes or defending his takedowns, I think Fighter B could *theoretically* win. It's just unlikely.

You're correct when you say effective striking/grappling, yet the priority is still given to striking, and grappling is secondary. Also note that my complaint is that stuffing takedowns is no longer seen as successful grappling, as it used to be:

PRIORITIZED CRITERIA:

Effective Striking/Grappling

“Legal blows that have immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute towards the end of the match with the IMMEDIATE weighing in more heavily than the cumulative impact. Successful execution of takedowns, submission attempts, reversals and the achievement of advantageous positions that produce immediate or cumulative impact with the potential to contribute to the end of the match, with the IMMEDIATE weighing more heavily than the cumulative impact.” It shall be noted that a successful takedown is not merely a changing of position, but the establishment of an attack from the use of the takedown. Top and bottom position fighters are assessed more on the impactful/effective result of their actions, more so than their position. This criterion will be the deciding factor in a high majority of decisions when scoring a round. The next two criteria must be treated as a backup and used ONLY when Effective Striking/Grappling is 100% equal for the round.

So, in this special hypothetical case, it would be 100% equal, and we move to the next criterion:

Effective Aggressiveness

“Aggressively making attempts to finish the fight. The key term is ‘effective’. Chasing after an opponent with no effective result or impact should not render in the judges’ assessments.” Effective Aggressiveness is only to be assessed if Effective Striking/Grappling is 100% equal for both competitors.

Pay attention to the bold and underlined section. The guy unsuccessfully spamming takedowns does not even score points on aggression, I was incorrect before. Now, we move to the determining factor of the round:

Fighting Area Control

“Fighting area control is assessed by determining who is dictating the pace, place and position of the match.” Fighting Area Control” shall only to be assessed if Effective Striking/Grappling and Effective Aggressiveness is 100% equal for both competitors. This will be assessed very rarely.

This is where the guy defending the takedowns should win the round.

ROUND SCORING:

10–10 Round

“A 10 – 10 round in MMA is when both fighters have competed for whatever duration of time in the round and there is no difference or advantage between either fighter.” A 10 – 10 round in MMA should be extremely rare and is not a score to be used as an excuse by a judge that cannot assess the differences in the round. A 10 – 10 round in MMA is a necessity to have for the judge’s possible score, mainly due to scoring incomplete rounds. It is possible to have a round where both fighters engage for 5 minutes and at the end of the 5-minute time period the output, impact, effectiveness and overall competition between the two fighters is exactly the same. It is possible, but highly unlikely. If there is any discernable difference between the two fighters during the round the judge shall not give the score of 10 – 10. Again, this score will be extremely rare.

Worst case scenario, it's a 10-10, but in no way should the guy defending lose. If even one of his TDDs were considered aggressive, such as throwing or tripping the attacker to the ground, he should win the round.


I tried to tell him that he's basically saying that if MMA was basketball you should get points for getting steals and blocks.

The reward of defense is denying whatever your opponent tried to do. But it's your opponent making you do that.

Yet, you think the team who misses 10 out of 10 shots should score points based on effort? Your analogy doesn't work well here. This isn't basketball.
 
So round 3 Volkanovski v Oretga, the sub threat means little, = clear 10-8 round?.

Hmm not sure I agree.
 
Yet, you think the team who misses 10 out of 10 shots should score points based on effort? Your analogy doesn't work well here. This isn't basketball.

I'm thinking if I dodge/block all your shots, and you dodge all of mine, but you throw more you should win on aggression.

On another note, If its really getting that close it should be 10-10.
 
I'm thinking if I dodge/block all your shots, and you dodge all of mine, but you throw more you should win on aggression.

On another note, If its really getting that close it should be 10-10.

Per the rules, the effectiveness of the aggression is what matters. It would have to be 10-10 with 0 effectiveness from either party, and that's where my issue lies. Stuffing takedowns is effective and it dictates the place and position of the fight.
 
So round 3 Volkanovski v Oretga, the sub threat means little, = clear 10-8 round?.

Hmm not sure I agree.
The round was a 10-9 Volk or 10-8 Volk if you want to give something else than a 9-10
 
The judges will find a way to fuck this up.
 
So basically this is refluffed crap from 2019...

<36>

Nothing has officially changed..
 
not been reading into this too much

so u can almost finish a guy with 12 different subs in a round and it won't be a 10-8?
 
I don't like it, you should be able to win a 10-8 round via grappling dominance or striking dominance or some combination of them. If fighter A takes down fighter B lands about 50 strikes while maintaining halfguard or better for most of the round and has 2 sub attempts while his opponent lands less than 2 strikes he should win that round 10-8. BTW the scenario I'm describing happened in Rampage vs Griffin.
 
Stuffing takedowns is effective and it dictates the place and position of the fight.
Here's where me and you differ.
The person attempting the TD dictated the place and position not the person defending.

The person who attempted forced the person defending to defend. He forced the other person to step backwards, dropped his hip, move laterally, stop throwing a strike mid throw to dodge, etc.

Getting the TD isn't the end all. The person attempting the TD dislodged the person defending from whatever original position they were really in.

Example
2 fighters are the center of the cage. 1 fighter wants the better the other person to deny the other fighter the center. So one fighter shoots for a TD and while doesn't get the TD he achieved his goal moving/dislodging the other fighter out of the center. The other fighter wants the center end can't get the center because hes too just defending TD to implement the type of fight he wants.

Or fighter wants the fight up against the fence so they attempt an unsuccessful ankle pick that doesn't land but pushes his opponent into the fence where he now is in a more advantageous position.

A person denying another person's attempts to take them down is not the same as that person implementing their offense or game plan or strategy.

You think WB wants to spend all fight defending TD? Or Izzy?

By definition I don't think defense can be effective because it's your opponent who is dictating your actions.
 
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I don't like it, you should be able to win a 10-8 round via grappling dominance or striking dominance or some combination of them. If fighter A takes down fighter B lands about 50 strikes while maintaining halfguard or better for most of the round and has 2 sub attempts while his opponent lands less than 2 strikes he should win that round 10-8. BTW the scenario I'm describing happened in Rampage vs Griffin.
What do you score Woodley vs WB round 1 where Woodley catches a WB kick, takes him down, lands over 40 strikes and keep him in his back basically the whole round? Officially strike count was 48-2 in Woodley's favor.

I don't remember anyone calling that a 10-8. That was pretty universal 10-9. Round 4 in that fight was the 10-8 round for Woodley.
 
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