dam Ken Shamrock was insanely boring

[Within the Living Death]

yeah, im at ufc 8 so maybe im missing these amazing fights, actually fell asleep in one of his fights

Ken vs Royce II, Ken vs Severn II, and Ken vs Taktarov are pretty boring. In fact two of those fights are among the most boring ever, but everything else he did in the UFC pre WWF is pretty good. His Pancrase fights from around the same time are fun to watch. You should check those out.

 

[gono btw]

I agree... It’s a nuanced discussion. Numerous factors at play..

And again, I’m not some steadfast “era-ist”...

I’ll check it out - Thanks for the info/insight...


Also... And not to be lame or overdramatic... But I appreciate the back and forth dialogue/convo, without shit talking and trying to belittle someone...

 

[Gangsters_Paradise]

 

[moreorless87]

Ken vs Royce II, Ken vs Severn II, and Ken vs Taktarov are pretty boring. In fact two of those fights are among the most boring ever, but everything else he did in the UFC pre WWF is pretty good. His Pancrase fights from around the same time are fun to watch. You should check those out.

Arguebly his most fun stuff was early on his post WWF comeback, the Fujita and Frye matches especially.

 

[Within the Living Death]

Arguebly his most fun stuff was early on his post WWF comeback, the Fujita and Frye matches especially.

True. His fight with Frye is one of my favorite fights ever. Even his first fight with Tito is a great fight. It's too bad he had to throw the towel in against Fujita. Still a great fight though.

 

[savemgs]

If I remember correctly Ken Shamrock had like a 90% finishing rate.

 

[Brit_Brawler]

Just reviewing these old fights, god this guy was boring to watch fight.

I agree. Like watching paint dry

 

[savemgs]

He mostly wasn't boring aside from a handful of slow fights, and he was a pioneer in the sport. He wouldn't beat anyone good now though, and probably was on roids a lot back in the day.

I don't know man heavyweight and 205 are trash these days except for the very top of the divisions.

Kenny might be able to put on a respectable performance.
I never thought I'd say that five years ago.....

 

[savemgs]

Hopefully one day you can enlighten me with your fight acumen. Not tonight tho just talking about Ken Shamrock makes me sleepy

You should watch John Fitch Fight that might put you in a coma.

 

[savemgs]

And was a UFC heavyweight champion

I am not gonna go back and forth with you and argue on the iunternet about your idol who is a fake.



I use my eyes, see what I see and judge. You can do other way. Crocop is rememberd, Igor Vovchanchin is, Fedor is, Rendleman is-nobody knows or gives a shit about Ken Shamrock if you ask people.

Man you must be one of the most ignorant people to ever grace this website and that's really saying something.
So let me drop some knowledge on you let me give you a bit of an education the UFC would have died in 2001 if it was known for Ken Shamrock and Tito Ortiz.
Don't get me wrong as a lot of stuff you can say about Ken but the fact of the matter is the sport would be dead without him and Tito.
And as for your comment with Kevin Randleman Kevin was one of the best amateur wrestlers to come out of Oklahoma State and is he UFC heavyweight champion so how about you shut up and show some respect for the Dead.

 

[Jin Akutsu]

News flash...

Watch the equivalent timeframe in any other sport... and prepare for the urge to want to blow your brains out... or.. on a lighter note... watch paint dry...

You ever watch football, hockey, baseball, etc from the 50’s??? All due respect to those athletes... But 98% of them, their skill sets wouldn’t translate to modern day athletes...

Sure if they were brought up in this era, they would be different athletes...

 

[UFCBlackbelt]

i get what you're saying, but maybe grappling isn't his cup of tea?

i know what goes on in grappling, but it's not like i find it very exciting either.

it's just the nature of grappling, there's way less sudden explosive moves, and much more controlling and positioning that goes on, which isn't exactly exciting stuff.

its not that i dont enjoy grappling, Ken's style was literally to hold guard with zero real effort.

 

[Levi_]

I don't know man heavyweight and 205 are trash these days except for the very top of the divisions.

Kenny might be able to put on a respectable performance.
I never thought I'd say that five years ago.....

Ken would absolutely tank against even the mediocre fighters of today. The fighters he did well against were those of yesterday. The Gracies/Severn/Fry's and such that were his rivals wouldn't be a good look these days. Plus, he would have to contend with USADA, which probably would ruin anything he DID have going.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Not boring. Entertaining.

 

[savemgs]

Ken would absolutely tank against even the mediocre fighters of today. The fighters he did well against were those of yesterday. The Gracies/Severn/Fry's and such that were his rivals wouldn't be a good look these days. Plus, he would have to contend with USADA, which probably would ruin anything he DID have going.

Honestly I don't know about that my friend heavyweight light heavyweight are filled with past Prime fighters
And seemed to be filled up with one dimensional athletes again just like Kenny was. I'm not saying he'd be a champion but come on Ken in his prime would Ragdoll the ghosts of Andrei Arlovski and shogun right now. Both of which are considered to be top 15 still. And as for usada in 2019 after Jon Jones that organization has no credibility left in it.

But in all seriousness I think the shows that the sport is regressing because the previous generation of athletes would humiliate 99% of the guys now. Outside a couple top three guy.
By the way I only mean Heavyweight and lighthavy. Most of the other divisions seem to be fine.

 

[Levi_]

Honestly I don't know about that my friend heavyweight light heavyweight are filled with past Prime fighters
And seemed to be filled up with one dimensional athletes again just like Kenny was. I'm not saying he'd be a champion but come on Ken in his prime would Ragdoll the ghosts of Andrei Arlovski and shogun right now. Both of which are considered to be top 15 still. And as for usada in 2019 after Jon Jones that organization has no credibility left in it.

But in all seriousness I think the shows that the sport is regressing because the previous generation of athletes would humiliate 99% of the guys now. Outside a couple top three guy.
By the way I only mean Heavyweight and lighthavy. Most of the other divisions seem to be fine.

Not sure what you mean by the previous generation. As far as HW, guys like long time champ Sylvia certainly wouldn't humiliate anyone today. Pride had a grand total of 3 guys whos names I don't even need to mention that could beat most if not all of the HW's today, the rest were pretty lesser in those days also.

Sham never really had any good victories from today's perspective (his wins over Bas were literally when Bas knew NO submissions), and wasn't the clear top fighter in the first MMA generation (2 generations ago); Severn and Gracie were as good or better, and that really make the idea he could beat anyone good today look ridiculous. He landed some good shots on Fujita, and had really improved his striking, but he had to quit when he ran out of gas, and would have gotten smashed by Fujita on the ground if he had continued.

I get that you like Sham, and I worshipped him in the 90's, but in retrospect, he is more revered for his pioneering than his actual ability.

 

[UFCBlackbelt]

Honestly I don't know about that my friend heavyweight light heavyweight are filled with past Prime fighters
And seemed to be filled up with one dimensional athletes again just like Kenny was. I'm not saying he'd be a champion but come on Ken in his prime would Ragdoll the ghosts of Andrei Arlovski and shogun right now. Both of which are considered to be top 15 still. And as for usada in 2019 after Jon Jones that organization has no credibility left in it.

But in all seriousness I think the shows that the sport is regressing because the previous generation of athletes would humiliate 99% of the guys now. Outside a couple top three guy.
By the way I only mean Heavyweight and lighthavy. Most of the other divisions seem to be fine.

I highly highly doubt that.

There was very little cross training done back then, gameplans existed but were extremely barebones.

Take a fighter like Fabricio Werdum who has good striking and bjj. Or Daniel Cormier, or Stipe (great boxing + wrestling), Cain, JDS, Glover, OSP, etc. All these guys would demolish a lot of the top guys. Even guys like Alexander Gustaffson, with good tds and slick boxing.

Back then, almost nobody knew takedown defense, it really only started to evolve with the game. Striking wasn't really even well-utilized until you had hybrids like Marco Ruas.

It's a different ballgame today

 

[savemgs]

Not sure what you mean by the previous generation. As far as HW, guys like long time champ Sylvia certainly wouldn't humiliate anyone today. Pride had a grand total of 3 guys whos names I don't even need to mention that could beat most if not all of the HW's today, the rest were pretty lesser in those days also.

Sham never really had any good victories from today's perspective (his wins over Bas were literally when Bas knew NO submissions), and wasn't the clear top fighter in the first MMA generation (2 generations ago); Severn and Gracie were as good or better, and that really make the idea he could beat anyone good today look ridiculous. He landed some good shots on Fujita, and had really improved his striking, but he had to quit when he ran out of gas, and would have gotten smashed by Fujita on the ground if he had continued.

I get that you like Sham, and I worshipped him in the 90's, but in retrospect, he is more revered for his pioneering than his actual ability.

I'm pretty sure Kenny and Tim Sylvia would beat this list of UFC heavyweights that are competing today in the UFC.
Travis Browne
Walt Harris
Derrick Lewis
Marcos Rogério de Lima
Chris de la Rocha
Cyril Asker
Jarjis Danho
Todd Duffee

 

[the ambush]

I always wanted to see a Shamrock - Mur fight. It actually came very close to happening during Ken’s second quest in the UFC as Mur was a major player in that time. Ken has more career submissions wins than Mur. Mur’s never been submitted in MMA competition.

 

[PolarBearPaulVarelans]

It appears that the OP @UFCBlackbelt is working his way up event by event from UFC 1 onwards.

That's cool, and I wish more newer fans would do that. However, I would suggest actually getting through a large number of UFC events first, then watching a good number of non-UFC events of the time, (the early Extreme Fighting events headed by Peretti, Pancrase up until Kondo became champ, MARS, and slightly later on, the early PRIDE events) and then seeing how the sport evolved before passing judgment on a fighter being "boring" or not.

Quite a few legends and pioneers, not just Ken Shamrock, had their share of "boring" fights. At the time, MMA had far fewer rules while being far more primitive in terms of techniques, and as such, more closely simulated a street fight.

For instance, Shamrock's rematches against Royce and Dan Severn, as well as his superfight against Oleg Taktarov were very dull affairs. However, in each case, that was a consequence of Ken's skills relatives to that of his opponents, not any fundamental failing of his. His fights in Pancrase, his first fights against Royce and Severn, or his match against Kimo were all reasonably fun for the time.