Cyborg walking around at 172lbs (drop the 135 canard Ronda fans)

[eiyuu]

So I just watched the video of her cutting to 140....

By any fair and objective standards, that was really fucking bad. When she was walking from to the cut when she had her hood up, she literally looked like a skeleton.

So I'm going to go out on a very long limb here, and say those who've been claiming she can easily make 135? You all have to come to terms that there is a very good chance you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. So maybe altering your opinions going forward may be a good idea.

It's possible she could actually make 135. However the idea that it's not very risky to both her health, and performance? You're living in a fantasy land, and this is not debatable.

Then she should stop calling out 135 lbers and/or expecting them to move up and fight her.

When she does that, I'll stop with the "Lose the weight or shut up Cybro" responses.

 

[Kneeuinthenutz]

i'm going to ask you, do you think her lowest possible walking weight is 172 lbs? because that's what she weighed last week. 27 lbs to make 145 she says. so yeah, she's going to have some tough cuts. but she's a 5'8 woman, and she weighs 172 lbs. do you think maybe 172 is a little too bulky if the goal was to fight at a lower weight? 5'8, 172 woman.

For the love of god....

She is certainly not a typical 5'8 woman. She has a large bone structure for a woman, and it should be obvious to anyone with 2 eyes she is a big girl.

Here is what I know. I watched her cut to 140 and she looked really, really, really bad....Extremely unhealthy and very risky.

I've seen how she looks at 172. She looks perfectly normal and healthy,

 

[Kneeuinthenutz]

Then she should stop calling out 135 lbers and/or expecting them to move up and fight her.

When she does that, I'll stop with the "Lose the weight or shut up Cybro" responses.

Um.,....they all claimed they want to fight her....And 1 of them has had a whole bunch of shit to say about her over the years.

Perhaps a more objective view of this may do you good.

 

[dns2344]

Of course, if she used to walk around at 160 and now we see pictures of her at 175, she should probably not have gained the 15 lbs. and dropping four would not be an issue.

Hey I know you
If I could keep the weight off just as I could 5 years ago then I'd be much better off too but damn if I can!

 

[Eater of Souls]

Hey I know you
If I could keep the weight off just as I could 5 years ago then I'd be much better off too but damn if I can!

Hah, I am almost 50 and I manage. Of course, it is not muscle I am struggling to keep off, damn it.

 

[dns2344]

Hah, I am almost 50 and I manage. Of course, it is not muscle I am struggling to keep off, damn it.

Tell me about it. We can live vicariously through these fighters.

 

[eiyuu]

Um.,....they all claimed they want to fight her....And 1 of them has had a whole bunch of shit to say about her over the years.

Perhaps a more objective view of this may do you good.

Objective indeed.

Did Jessica Eye claim to want to fight Cyborg when she called her out?

That'd be a big no.

So again, if she can't make 135, stop with the wanting to fight 135 lbers and move on.

 

[kflo]

For the love of god....

She is certainly not a typical 5'8 woman. She has a large bone structure for a woman, and it should be obvious to anyone with 2 eyes she is a big girl.

Here is what I know. I watched her cut to 140 and she looked really, really, really bad....Extremely unhealthy and very risky.

I've seen how she looks at 172. She looks perfectly normal and healthy,

huge bones

look. we've seen guys have terrible cuts for one fight, and then easily make weight for other fights. but i guess we won't agree if you're position is simply she's big boned and she can't get her walking weight much below 172.

 

[Turtlejuice]

For the love of god....

She is certainly not a typical 5'8 woman. She has a large bone structure for a woman, and it should be obvious to anyone with 2 eyes she is a big girl.

Here is what I know. I watched her cut to 140 and she looked really, really, really bad....Extremely unhealthy and very risky.

I've seen how she looks at 172. She looks perfectly normal and healthy,

If she's 172lbs, her bones weigh roughly 26lbs. If she was 160lbs, her bones would weight roughly 24lbs. Don't think her bones are the issue.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

I really like and agree with the first part of your post but, at least in the case of Cyborg, a super fight with Ronda would not be a freak show. Ronda, until her one-off loss to Holm (and even to this day) was regarded as the best female fighter in the world bar none. It was a common wisdom that not only could she beat any female in the world, she would have a good chance against men in her weight as well. This was not just fan talk, people like Joe Rogan were saying so and apparently meaning it. Even Ronda seemed to believed she was unbeatable. This is a far cry from an undersized, overmatched can thrown to the slaughter. Most of the world would have expected Ronda to win that fight and even now Vegas favors Ronda in a potential matchup. This combined with the fact that Ronda was literally on the verge of completely cleaning out her division save for Holm, who nobody expected to present a serious problem to Rousey. In this setting a superfight between Ronda and Cyborg was certainly warranted and would have in no way been considered an unfair squash match favoring the (slightly) heavier fighter. So if you prefer, the smaller fighter was not ducking Cyborg, but the better fighter was.

Well argued, with the caveat that I doubt anyone really thought Rousey could beat a trained male (even Rousey put it in terms of "never admitting defeat" rather than thinking it likely). In judo barely top 500 men from lower weight divisions would throw her around like a doll in randori (practice); the difference in speed and strength between men and women is too much when you get into the trained end (though Rousey would throw around untrained men her size easily). I think those statements my Rogan etc were to hype the product, not something they really believed.

However, many did think she was the greatest WMMA fighter, and in that light your right, Cyborg-Rousey would not have been a freak show for those that believed. But I don't think that includes that many people, probably including Rousey herself. She's smart enough to know the difference weight makes (for instance, heavier international level women in judo - and Cyborg would be a full weight division heavier than Rousey with same day weighins like in judo) easily beat Rousey all the time in practice. Rousey is an excellent self-promoter, but she's not a moron, she was very well aware of what happened when she went against heavier women in judo - why would she expect anything different in MMA? There's a reason for weight divisions.

I notice that its mainly boxing and MMA fans who expect champs to go up in weight. In most combat sports there's no such expectation. For instance, look at any of the "greatest" Olympic wrestlers or judoka, people like Satiev in wrestling or Nomura in judo won three Olympic gold medals at the same weight without anyone saying their refusal to go up in weight for the next Olympics was a mark against them ... in fact no one in judo or wrestling would even think to suggest it, because its well known how important size is. You'll never find a comment on a wrestling forum saying that Satiev should have gone up in weight for subsequent Olympics; instead he's regularly listed as the greatest or at least top three greatest wrestlers in history. Rousey comes from that legacy, and going up in weight for the challenge is considered kind of daft; you go up in weight when your body grows, not because you won gold already and need a new challenge.

 

[Captain Herb]

Well argued, with the caveat that I doubt anyone really thought Rousey could beat a trained male (even Rousey put it in terms of "never admitting defeat" rather than thinking it likely). In judo barely top 500 men from lower weight divisions would throw her around like a doll in randori (practice); the difference in speed and strength between men and women is too much when you get into the trained end (though Rousey would throw around untrained men her size easily). I think those statements my Rogan etc were to hype the product, not something they really believed.

However, many did think she was the greatest WMMA fighter, and in that light your right, Cyborg-Rousey would not have been a freak show for those that believed. But I don't think that includes that many people, probably including Rousey herself. She's smart enough to know the difference weight makes (for instance, heavier international level women in judo - and Cyborg would be a full weight division heavier than Rousey with same day weighins like in judo) easily beat Rousey all the time in practice. Rousey is an excellent self-promoter, but she's not a moron, she was very well aware of what happened when she went against heavier women in judo - why would she expect anything different in MMA? There's a reason for weight divisions.

I notice that its mainly boxing and MMA fans who expect champs to go up in weight. In most combat sports there's no such expectation. For instance, look at any of the "greatest" Olympic wrestlers or judoka, people like Satiev in wrestling or Nomura in judo won three Olympic gold medals at the same weight without anyone saying their refusal to go up in weight for the next Olympics was a mark against them ... in fact no one in judo or wrestling would even think to suggest it, because its well known how important size is. You'll never find a comment on a wrestling forum saying that Satiev should have gone up in weight for subsequent Olympics; instead he's regularly listed as the greatest or at least top three greatest wrestlers in history. Rousey comes from that legacy, and going up in weight for the challenge is considered kind of daft; you go up in weight when your body grows, not because you won gold already and need a new challenge.

That's an interesting point about other combat sports not having the tradition of going up in weight. If correct, it could explain Ronda's reluctance to go back to 145. Except she was ready to fight Gina at 145 so she was at least tempted. My post history is littered with arguments with Ronda fans, most who are now gone, predicting that Ronda would not only lose to trained men, she would also lose to untrained men provided they were athletic and had a sizable weight advantage. The strength differential is too great and it negates technique at some point.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

That's an interesting point about other combat sports not having the tradition of going up in weight. If correct, it could explain Ronda's reluctance to go back to 145. Except she was ready to fight Gina at 145 so she was at least tempted. My post history is littered with arguments with Ronda fans, most who are now gone, predicting that Ronda would not only lose to trained men, she would also lose to untrained men provided they were athletic and had a sizable weight advantage. The strength differential is too great and it negates technique at some point.

I think her willingness to fight Gina at 145 is more a (perhaps unintentional) disrespect of Gina than a sign of general interest in going up in weight. Rousey sometimes competed against low level judo women in higher weight divisions in local competitions (basically put her or any judo Olympian against a typical club black belt who outweighs them by even 100 pounds and the Olympian is going to win, and easily). Gina was long retired, and Rousey would have estimated she'd be an easy, high paying fight, a gimme. That's different than fighting a serious 145 pounder, and Cyborg is the most serious 145 pounder out there. Rousey has been in high level sport a long time, she knows why weight divisions exist; hype for the press is just that, a story they tell to sell fights.

Definitely agree that strength difference negates technique at some point. I always think of technique as a multiplier - it can multiply your effective technique by say 1.5 or 2 times etc. But if the strength (and even more important, speed - men are much faster than women) difference is huge, the technique multiplier is inadequate. Its why I would happily bet on a gorilla against any MMA fighter in an unarmed fight (a smart human would of course bring a gun). And in the case of Rousey-Cyborg (or GSP-Anderson or Anderson-Jones), the technique differential is minimal, so the bigger fighter is almost guaranteed to win in every case. Fans want to see these fights because they involve personalities they know, but the fighters themselves know what will happen - the bigger fighter wins unless they're forced to cut enough muscle that they're no longer bigger (or are drained) in the cage.