Cutman Tales

Good work Vidar!

I've been looking at getting into this myself and will be contacting the Astoria Boxing Club about help volunteering to help out with the fights they have there if I can learn some stuff from the cuts guys.

I have seen the Epi fr sale, but cannot find it. When I do I'll re-post here.

If you know anyone who works in Industrial First Aid or as a Paramedic you should be able to get some.

In the mean time, this might be worth checking out:


Blood STOP Hemostatic Gauze from Title MMA
 
Mr. Sinister said:
Vidar, I'm going to alter this thread a bit tomorrow because it's turned into such good information. I won't alter your opening post at all, just the Title of the thread, and will add some more information of my own.

You'll like it, a corner REALLY fucked up recently in a very high profile Boxing match and I'm going to do my best to explain how.
Click to expand...

Gee, I wonder if I can guess which one THAT was.

I was watching it and even I, a Vet of a whole 3 fights (plus a few helping in the corner), have seen better work in the corner. That shit was shameful.
 
Vidar79 said:
As far as I know these are not allowed in fights. Even the OTC nosebleed stuff was yanked from my bag. Better go online to make sure. To my knowledge all that is allowed is Adrenaline 1:1000, Avatene and Thrombin. In mma matches I think the need for Thrombin might not come into play. Dude....talk to a Ringside Doc and do your best to get it. One word AMAZING. If it's a chic Doc wear tight jeans to accentuate ye'ol bulge know what I mean?. :p
Click to expand...

Oh this is for a regulated fight. Yeah...I don't think they are allowed either.
 
You are now officially the man.
Click to expand...

You'd be surprise how often I hear this. Mainly cause it rhymes with my name.

Seriously though, I've never ordered from there so I have no idea if/when/how long etc. it'll take to get it.

There is another place and I remember it being legit, but I saved it to my old comp. When I remember I'll definitely post it.
 
I was watching it and even I, a Vet of a whole 3 fights (plus a few helping in the corner), have seen better work in the corner. That shit was shameful.
Click to expand...

If you guessed Jones Jr./Calzaghe, you win the prize. Alright budding cutmen, here goes:

During the Joe Calzaghe/Roy Jones Jr. Fight this past weekend. Roy suffered a horrific cut:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/11/09/alg_jones-defends.jpg

However, almost as gruesome as the cut itself, was Jones' corner in handling the situation. First things first, with all due respect to Alton Merkerson, he's always been regarded as a trainer of Amateurs. I'd always given him the benefit of the doubt, until this Fight when he told HBO's Max Kellerman that Roy had never been cut in a Fight. Why would you admit your own inexperience, simply due to Roy never having been cut? Merkerson basically revealed that he's not used to his Fighters being cut, and most of us know the primary function of headgear in training and Amateur Competition, is cut prevention.

Merkerson kept telling the physician who was employed as the cut man "let me get some pressure on that Doc" when the coagulant was being applied. The precious seconds it took them to change hands alleviated pressure on the cut and depth of the coagulant. Furthermore, the Doctor was on Jones' right side. Notice what side the cut is on? Every time he had to tend to the cut himself, Roy had to turn his head and crane his neck. Also, Roy kept asking for water on his head and they kept dumping the water on his head. After about the third time they did this I saw with my own two eyes that they were rinsing the cut of the coagulant. Lastly, they seemed to also be experimenting with the various coagulants, as opposed to fixing these minor problems.

Whereas if any of you caught the bloodbath between Michael Katsidis and Czar Amonsot, Katisidis suffered multiple facial monstrosities:

http://cdn1-www.ringtv.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/2014/03/Michael-Katsidis_EthanMille.jpg

Katsidis' Australian team hired one of the best cutmen in Boxing in Joe Souza who is a virtual miracle worker with cuts. He was also kept out of position until it seemed Katsidis' team realized what they had in Joe and the trainer promptly switched places, allowing Joe to go to work. It seemed before then the Australian team wasn't familiar with how good Joe really was. Whereas Roy had to ask his own corner "is the eye closed?"...Joe kept the bloodflow stemmed for the most part, and Katsidis patched up enough to win the Fight decisively, and subsequently end the career of Amonsot who suffered two subdural hematomas as a result of Katsidis' punches. Here's a HL clip where you can see Joe working on the cuts a bit:

YouTube - Amonsot destroying Katsidis - HL
 
Last edited:
Mr. Sinister said:
If you guessed Jones Jr./Calzaghe, you win the prize. Alright budding cutmen, here goes:

Sweet, I like prizes.

During the Joe Calzaghe/Roy Jones Jr. Fight this past weekend. Roy suffered a horrific cut:

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/11/09/alg_jones-defends.jpg

However, almost as gruesome as the cut itself, was Jones' corner in handling the situation. First things first, with all due respect to Alton Merkerson, he's always been regarded as a trainer of Amateurs. I'd always given him the benefit of the doubt, until this Fight when he told HBO's Max Kellerman that Roy had never been cut in a Fight. Why would you admit your own inexperience, simply due to Roy never having been cut? Merkerson basically revealed that he's not used to his Fighters being cut, and most of us know the primary function of headgear in training and Amateur Competition, is cut prevention. Exactly.


Merkerson kept telling the physician who was employed as the cut man "let me get some pressure on that Doc" when the coagulant was being applied. The precious seconds it took them to change hands alleviated pressure on the cut and depth of the coagulant. Furthermore, the Doctor was on Jones' right side. Notice what side the cut is on? Yep! Every time he had to tend to the cut himself, Roy had to turn his head and crane his neck. Also, Roy kept asking for water on his head and they kept dumping the water on his head. After about the third time they did this I saw with my own two eyes that they were rinsing the cut of the coagulant. I saw this too, and that's hen I realized Roy was in REAL trouble. Lastly, they seemed to also be experimenting with the various coagulants, as opposed to fixing these minor problems. This I did not notice. Thanks for pointing that out.

Whereas if any of you caught the bloodbath between Michael Katsidis and Czar Amonsot, Katisidis suffered multiple facial monstrosities:

http://images.badlefthook.com/images/admin/20fights07_katsidisamonsot2.jpg

Katsidis' Australian team hired one of the best cutmen in Boxing in Joe Souza who is a virtual miracle worker with cuts. He was also kept out of position until it seemed Katsidis' team realized what they had in Joe and the trainer promptly switched places, allowing Joe to go to work. It seemed before then the Australian team wasn't familiar with how good Joe really was. Whereas Roy had to ask his own corner "is the eye closed?"...Joe kept the bloodflow stemmed for the most part, and Katsidis patched up enough to win the Fight decisively, and subsequently end the career of Amonsot who suffered two subdural hematomas as a result of Katsidis' punches. Here's a HL clip where you can see Joe working on the cuts a bit:

YouTube - Amonsot destroying Katsidis - HL
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. For those who are looking for the Corner/Cut Work:
2:30
5:50
8:30

KK/Mr.S:

Are you familiar at all with the hemostatic gauze I posted earlier? If you get a chance ask around (you too, Martin) and let me know what the trainers think of it. It's newer, but it;s been around long enough that people may know it. At least the guys you dudes know.

Blood STOP Hemostatic Gauze from Title MMA
 
My guess is Rafael Garcia will hate it. lol You know how the old schoolers are. If I see Miguel Diaz, the other very renowned cutman I see relatively routinely, I'll ask him. I'll have to purchase some to show them in-person though, because it's very difficult to explain things like this in Spanish, to old Hispanic men.

And about the Doctor in Roy's corner, Max asked him what coagulants he was using because Manny Steward was making a big deal out of it, he thought they weren't using any. Turns out the Doctor was using all 3 mentioned in this thread that are approved for competition. Why all 3? Why not just get on the right flippin' side, keep the pressure consistent, not rinse it out with water, and make sure it's getting deep enough?

Roy bled for what 6 straight rounds? Unnecessary.
 
Oh, ok. I do remember that part (with Kellerman and the Doc). I guess I just didn't hear the names he said.

I guess that might be the difference between a Cutman, and a Doc. Cutmen do cuts.
 
Giving The Fighter One More Round DVD from Title Boxing

I bought this the other day fellas. I hope it may have some little nuggets of knowledge.

EDIT: Major Disappointment.

This DVD is basically like a giant trailer for the DVD. It shows Stitch on various talk shows talking about the DVD. It never addresses how to properly close a cut, how to apply adrenaline or any other coagulant, etc. It shows him wrap hands one good time without any explanation of how he's doing it. Its a waste. I'm actually kind of pissed.
 
Thanks to all of you who contributed to this discussion so far, it's really interesting stuff
 
Sinister:

When working a cut, after soaking the Q-Tip in your coagulant and placing it in the wound, should you close the wound around the Q-Tip? Or should you apply the coagulant, remove the Q-Tip and then close the cut?

Also, I have heard of mixing Petroleum Jelly with Coagulants. Would you happen to know what the ratio should be? Basically, I'm asking if you happen to have a nice recipe for a salve. LOL. Or is it even worth it?
 
For the Stitch Video:

I;ve seen it and it's not bad. It shows him doing his thing and explaining, but I think most of us know already what he's talking about. Def. some cool things with the MMA style wrap he did that I hadn't seen. Worth a watch, but I'd rather spend the money and buy a bunch of gauze and tape and just practice a lot.

If you look online you can find it.


When working a cut, after soaking the Q-Tip in your coagulant and placing it in the wound, should you close the wound around the Q-Tip? Or should you apply the coagulant, remove the Q-Tip and then close the cut?

Also, I have heard of mixing Petroleum Jelly with Coagulants. Would you happen to know what the ratio should be? Basically, I'm asking if you happen to have a nice recipe for a salve. LOL. Or is it even worth it?
Click to expand...

I'm curious about this too. I think it varies with the cut, but I 'd like to hear more from anyone who knows.
 
There is an ideal mix, but I don't recall what it is off the top of my head. I'll try and look it up this week.

Another tip for budding cut men if you really want to make money, learn how to wrap hands. And I don't just mean with your Mexican handwraps, but which techniques of wrapping hands provide the most protection for Fighters. Especially in MMA where the gloves are smaller and hand breaks are more frequent. Rafael Garcia does this and his wraps are like casts, because of this and his ability to work cuts, he makes a good bit of coin doing what he does.
 
SideofKO said:
Also, I have heard of mixing Petroleum Jelly with Coagulants. Would you happen to know what the ratio should be? Basically, I'm asking if you happen to have a nice recipe for a salve. LOL. Or is it even worth it?
Click to expand...


I found the petroleum jelly will only hold so much of the Epi before it just does not mix anymore. As for the other coagulents don't mix them at all.
This reminds me of something that happened at the fight At the instructions before the fight we were told that anytime we remove something from it's original contaner a represenative of the commision must be present to observe. So before mixing the Vasoline and Epi I instructed an official what I was doing. He looked at the bottle like it was a moon rock opened it smelled it and told me I could not mix them? I have looked over our rules and have yet to find where it says this https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ChapterHome.asp?Chapter=61K1-1 . It was my first fight in this capacity so I wasn't going to rock the boat. If I can't find this rule I will next time.I Just used the Epi then the Vaseline on the cut.
 
Thanks guys. I'm trying to do all the research I can.
 
When working a cut, after soaking the Q-Tip in your coagulant and placing it in the wound, should you close the wound around the Q-Tip? Or should you apply the coagulant, remove the Q-Tip and then close the cut?
Click to expand...

Sorry Bro, I totally missed this. The best cut-men I've ever seen do the latter. In the video footage I posted earlier that shows Souza working on Katsidis, in the 3rd part you see him dragging the Q-tip through the cut quite gruesomely. That's not to close the cut around the swab, but to get the coagulant as deep as it could get.
 
Mr. Sinister said:
Sorry Bro, I totally missed this. The best cut-men I've ever seen do the latter. In the video footage I posted earlier that shows Souza working on Katsidis, in the 3rd part you see him dragging the Q-tip through the cut quite gruesomely. That's not to close the cut around the swab, but to get the coagulant as deep as it could get.
Click to expand...

Thanks a million. I thought that this was the case. I suppose would it make sense to wipe the wound clean with gauze, apply the coagulant and then hold the wound shut with gauze? Or perhaps apply an Enswell to the then closed cut?
 
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