Cross Choke From Mount

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Easto, Jul 28, 2010.

  1. Easto

    Easto Green Belt

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    Can someone break this down for me (a vid would be awesome). I know the basics - getting a deep collar grip with thumbs out, the the second grip with the thump in.

    I am looking for the real fine details

    - How to get the original grip deep in the collar
    - How to shift your weight to keep from getting rolled
    - How to set up that second grip
    - How to squeeze out the finish

    I have been trying to watch Rogers competition video's, but it is hard to pick out the small things.
     
  2. dza76wutang

    dza76wutang Black Belt

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    I'm not an expert on the choke, but I can say that you do NOT have to have a specific grip. I find that my choke success is highest with double-palm-down. I went to a workshop on the choke, and the host said the key is getting that super deep bite with both hands and then closing the gap to constrict the neck, find the grip that's most comfortable and let it rip.
     
  3. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    Answers in order:

    To get the first grip in deep, you need to open it with your free hand, pull it so there's no give, and punch your knuckles on the gripping hand to the mat.

    As far as shifting your weight on the mat, I can't really explain that online. You have to develop a feel for it. Also it depends on how he's trying to roll you. I can tell you that if he's rolling towards the side of your gripping arm, switching to an s-mount or "technical mount" works well. From there you can either switch off to an armbar, or go back to the choke.

    You don't really set up the second grip, or at least I don't. I just shoot in and get a hold, and then slowly adjust the grip by inching my hand into place, before squeezing for the finish.

    Curl your wrists into his neck, and pull your elbows to your sides, while sinking your weight down on to him.


    I might add that it takes a ton of practice, but it's a choke that I think every gi practitioner should master.
     
  4. Hades666

    Hades666 Banned Banned

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    think of it this way the first hand u put in the collar (thumb out on this one) is giving your opponent the chance to bridge you towards that side since u gave up a post for the choke, so on your opposite side i like to straighten my leg out and keep my hip heavy to counter any bridging while i bring my knee up on the same side i gave my post up, bringing the knee up helps with base since u gave up your post, i wish i could find a pic, i hope u get what im sayin, after reading super rambo's post, i think im describing s-mount, sorry i dont know names for anything, i learn from a brazilian and i heard in brazil they dont really give things names

    then with your free hand now i lay my forearm against the ground behind his head (more base) while i sneak hand down to grab collar thumb in, at this point your hip is heavy countering bridge and your one knee and forearm are helping u with base, once you got the thumb in choke then as tightly as possible you want to sneak forearm over head and under neck then the choking is done by pulling on the bottom arm or the first grip, while maintaining that connection of course

    let me know if i got confusing
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  5. Hades666

    Hades666 Banned Banned

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    are u saying both thumbs in? i never learned it like that, having both thumbs out, then sliding elbows down and across your ribs while turning and curling wrists would work better i think
     
  6. Enhance

    Enhance White Belt

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    Tim peterson does a great job explaining it...very methodical teaching.

     
  7. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    I almost always do it with one palm up, one palm down.
     
  8. dza76wutang

    dza76wutang Black Belt

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    My preference is both thumbs in (so my pinky fingers touch the neck) and I have no problem finishing it when I lock it. My main obstacle is usually getting the second hand in without losing position or mangling my partner (there's a few mean and simple ways to force the hands in but I don't like to be mean to training partners). I feel more comfortable with both hands pronated from start to finish. Having one or both hands supinated tends to irritate something in the finger-wrist-elbow chain when I attempt the choke, especially from top.
     
  9. ShowUsYaJits

    ShowUsYaJits Orange Belt

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    You need to read this thread. I read the whole thing a few months ago and tried to apply everything. Result: my go-to choke from mount. It's VERY high percentage.

    Note that you will get people who think they can tuck their chin in with this one, and end up tapping because if they don't, you'll break their jaw. It's a good learning experience for them.
     
  10. Hades666

    Hades666 Banned Banned

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    me too, my wrists are kinda weak for the both thumb out one

    oh and this may help u too:

    [​IMG]

    hahahaha, sorry i had to
     
  11. Hades666

    Hades666 Banned Banned

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    i have a lil tip to make tighter, if u use a thumb in grip turn your wrist so the bottom part of your wrist is nice and flush against his neck, your thumb would be on the bottom with your pinky on top, on a thumb out grip then have the top part of wrist flush against neck with pinky on bottom and thumb on top, then when you go for choke you have the mobility to turn the blade of the wrist into his neck, which will tighten that "V" around his neck, i learned that from Henry Akins

    the way you describe your choke the blade of your wrist is already contacting the neck and you wont have the mobility to turn your wrists to tighten choke, from your position, all you can do is pull on your grips, it sounds like you are setting up choke with your wrists already in the finishing position, you lose that mobility to tighten the choke
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  12. ShowUsYaJits

    ShowUsYaJits Orange Belt

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    Me too. Provided you can get that first hand in there (and you will if they don't buck you off somehow), all you have to do is shoot that left hand in there and crush them from there. I think I've gotten rolled once or twice from there and still managed to get the tap.

    The brutality is key. Once you've seen the Ralek Gracie vid you'll have that image in your head every time you attempt this choke.

    We were having a fairly lazy roll in class right after warm-ups, and I attain mount. I then tell my partner to escape, as I don't want to do submissions just yet (particularly not the cross choke, which is the one I always practice). But he insisted that I go for the submission, so, I went for the choke, with proper technique (which involves some brutality). He also tried the chin tuck, and complained that it wasn't really choking him. Oh well.
     
  13. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    Of course you can finish it if he rolls you, because he ends up in your full guard. And that's the basic, old school cross choke from your guard. Helio Gracie was a big proponent of this.
     
  14. ShowUsYaJits

    ShowUsYaJits Orange Belt

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    The only reason it's a surprise is that I've heard it said that the cross choke from guard is more an attack that relies on timing, not brutality (vice versa for the X choke from mount). This has been my experience in rolling - in mount I'm usually going to get the X choke or get bucked off, but from guard it's get the right hand in the collar, and try to sweep, arm bar, whatever, and the moment he forgets about that hand in the collar and there is a good opening for your other hand - game over. Of course, forcing it from the guard sometimes works but that's not good jiu jitsu /Saulo.

    So if your choke from mount is not quite sunk and you get rolled, your opponent obviously knows what's going on and you can't use bodyweight to finish it. But I suspect that the reason I've gotten this the few times it has happened is that in the process of rolling me they've stopped defending the neck, allowing the choke to complete.
     
  15. Ybot

    Ybot Purple Belt

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    I just did a video the other day with the guys who do iFight video apps for iPhone and droid. Unfortunately they caught me after class and I wasn't really prepared to teach it in detail, but I showed what I do. It is different than the earlier video posted here, which btw I found very informative, just different than how I do it. I'll look and see if I can find the vid, or even if they put it online yet. Then I'll write out details for you guys to make the instruction better than what I filmed.
     
  16. Simonsimon

    Simonsimon White Belt

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    Just saw the SBGi 2009 dvd part: Master the mount, it was very good.
     
  17. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    I used that exact setup successfully in sparring today after seeing that vid recently. Fits in nicely with the shoulder of justice, which is the kind of mount game I prefer.
     
  18. metatronics

    metatronics Yellow Belt

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    :]

    Glad it helped!
     
  19. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    Thanks for the vid! You guys seriously have killer instructionals - keep putting them up!
     
  20. JerseyTrash

    JerseyTrash Silver Belt

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    My teacher cross collared me once or twice today. Its so simple, and thats what makes it so frustrating.
     

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