CroCop In The UFC , Exposed ? or Injures ?

[RagingBeringola]

Wrong, Wand was bigger than CC in that fight!

I guess you mean heavier. I said undersized, not underweighted. But indeed i should have been more precise.

A bit like when Ninja Rua tried to take part in the 2004 HW GP (ok, I took a radical example :icon_chee )

 

[johnyboy]

They got him at the tail end of his career. Prime cro cop was a beast

 

[deviake]

I love it when people mention PED testing, as if that's ever stopped anyone from using PED's. I mean, Olympic gold medalists and cyclists get caught after years and years of being tested, so surely if people are passing the tests, it means they're not on anything. How many competitors have to come out and say that most if not all high level athletes are using? They're probably all just full of shit and high balling it. :icon_lol:

Of all things, PED testing was surely the downfall of Cro Cop.

 

[crofighter]

Far less adaptable than Fedor. As MMA grew, CCs particular set of skills became one facet of a bunch.

...And we knew from the Randleman fight, his chin wasn't Huntlike!

CCs chin was pretty good. All wrestlers have heavy hands and especially Randleman, who was beast. That shot would have dropped anyone.

 

[OliverAtom]

=ironball;102220465]many factors

1) better competition, more grapplers

lol just no. Pride HW division was far stronger than UFCs. Tim Sylvia, Coutre and Arlovski dominated UFC during that era. Two of them got destroyed by Fedor and the third is an LHW. CC went the distance with Fedor.

2) PED testing

Most fighters are still doped to the gills. PED testing is a joke. Let me know when they implement Olympic testing then we'll talk.

3) cage & elbows

Its possible.

 

[Wand4Life]

People need to remember the context of CroCop right before he won that GP.

He was saying that if he didn't win it he was going to retire. So on the brink of him retiring he happens to win his greatest accomplishment (GP's often produce unseen results due to match-up's and strength of opponents).

UFC then snapped up an about-to-retire person, who also moves across the world into an entirely different rule set and cage (that's clearly not as favorable to his skill set) and he fades out.
It's easy to look back out of context if you weren't around at the time, and say he was at his peak, but that really wasn't the case.

 

[tsarbomba]

Age? Possibly also gonzaga's foot

 

[deviake]

People need to remember the context of CroCop right before he won that GP.

He was saying that if he didn't win it he was going to retire. So on the brink of him retiring he happens to win his greatest accomplishment (GP's often produce unseen results due to match-up's and strength of opponents).

UFC then snapped up an about-to-retire person, who also moves across the world into an entirely different rule set and cage (that's clearly not as favorable to his skill set) and he fades out.
It's easy to look back out of context if you weren't around at the time, and say he was at his peak, but that really wasn't the case.

Yep.

Cro Cop had already peaked and accomplished what he wanted to prior to entering the UFC.

I don't see a younger, hungrier Cro Cop losing to Nelson and Schaub. Sorry.

(Edit: To be abundantly clear, I'm not being sarcastic.)

 

[jimbob27]

His style wasn't well suited to the cage at all.

He was a master of stalking people in a square ring. He'd slowly walk forward and when you'd run out of room he'd take your head off with a kick.

It didn't work so well in a cage because there's loads of room for the opponent to circle out of danger. Even when he did trap them his trademark kicks relied on having a clear area above the ropes around the opponents head. He couldn't really land a shin on their skull with the cage blocking his foot.

Combine that with fighting in a new country, new rules, age, injuries, lacking motivation.... it was too much for him to overcome.

 

[vindaloo]

fat, slow and old

 

[SuperHoss]

many factors

1) better competition, more grapplers
2) PED testing
3) cage & elbows

I believe he was only like 31 or so at the time. The age/injury/longevity in kickboxing/mma excuse is bullshit. guys like semmy schilt & peter aerts, mark hunt have been through much worse and won titles at 37+ in kickboxing (except hunt). HWs usually last the longest out of all classes because the only real detrimental factor is speed and durability, which until 35 would not be noticeably different



Even right now at LHW/HW, belfort, rashad, rampage, teixera, machida, frank mir, bigfoot, DC, gonzaga there all pushing 34-36 and there prime was when they were around the same age cro-cop entered the UFC (30-33) just a few yrs later. liddell & silva were both champs at 36 & 37, hughes at 34

guys like tex, shad, machida, DC, belfort .etc, there all still revalent in the top 5 despite being about 35 or 36

Perfectly stated and correct.

 

[Szwok]

both.... Not fighting in a ring gave him problems. More wall/stall TDs grapplers etc.

 

[barehanded]

Even right now at LHW/HW, belfort, rashad, rampage, teixera, machida, frank mir, bigfoot, DC, gonzaga there all pushing 34-36 and there prime was when they were around the same age cro-cop entered the UFC (30-33) just a few yrs later. liddell & silva were both champs at 36 & 37, hughes at 34

guys like tex, shad, machida, DC, belfort .etc, there all still revalent in the top 5 despite being about 35 or 36

But Mirko had 50 K-1 and MMA fights when he entered UFC. None of the active fighters you mentioned have that many fights even now 8 years later. Chuck Liddell was older when he declined but also had about 50 fights in MMA and kickboxing. And his kickboxing opponents were much weaker.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

many factors

1) better competition, more grapplers
2) PED testing
3) cage & elbows

I believe he was only like 31 or so at the time. The age/injury/longevity in kickboxing/mma excuse is bullshit. guys like semmy schilt & peter aerts, mark hunt have been through much worse and won titles at 37+ in kickboxing (except hunt). HWs usually last the longest out of all classes because the only real detrimental factor is speed and durability, which until 35 would not be noticeably different
Even right now at LHW/HW, belfort, rashad, rampage, teixera, machida, frank mir, bigfoot, DC, gonzaga there all pushing 34-36 and there prime was when they were around the same age cro-cop entered the UFC (30-33) just a few yrs later. liddell & silva were both champs at 36 & 37, hughes at 34

guys like tex, shad, machida, DC, belfort .etc, there all still revalent in the top 5 despite being about 35 or 36

Pretty much this.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

Cro Cop said he long wanted to retire before the PRIDE OWGP due to injuries and just being burned out from fighting for so many years. He convinced himself to make one more go at it when he was offered a spot in the OWGP with the hopes he could win and retire on a high note. After that, UFC came calling with a contract he couldn't refuse.

People like to say that Cro Cop just started facing good competition and couldn't hang but don't realize he was fighting for the best promotion in the world before the UFC came along and already had 51 fights to his name.

He got paid really well in the UFC and it was hard for him to walk away with a steady paycheck coming in. He also said he started to feel like fighting was his responsibility and even if he was hurt, he would still fight to not let the promotion down.

Mirko was never the #1 guy in the world but he was scary and a solid #2 or #3. If he would have retired after the OWGP, people would look at him differently. Unfortunately, he let money and a sense that fighting was his job tarnish his legacy but he will be a legend in my eyes.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

Cro-cop was an excellent kickboxer who developed a style inside of a square ring, for a square ring. He used this to his advantage very well cutting off his opponents. This is very overlooked when observing his ineffectiveness in the Octagon where, opponents can circle away forever and move much more freely.

Cro-cop was burned out, period. You UFC nutthuggers need to learn to swallow this pill. The demon that was wrecking cans AND good fighters in pride was no longer by the time he came over to the UFC. On the record, he was very verbal about participating in politics, and he had many many hard battles. Also, I hate to say it, but Fedor broke him.

On top of all of this, yes the competition in the UFC had grown AFTER PRIDE DIED, and he was running into an entirely new world of fighters, many of which he would have likely destroyed in his earlier form in the ring.

 

[VAfan]

dude was roiding in pride like many other fighters

he obviously didnt look the same in the ufc, much slower and tentative

it's this, unfortunately. there are a lot of naysayers who worshiped pride but the fact is most of those guys looked much slower and more tentative once they came over.

you can say it was age but the decline was pretty immediate for most of them upon entering the ufc so I doubt it. wand, shogun, nog, crocop, they were pretty quickly shadows of what they were.

and yes rampage and anderson came over and did well but exceptions don't prove the absence of a rule.

 

[dr.Mitch]

UFC CroCop kept his LHK foot on the mat so who knows. Nobody knows why he didn't unleash his best weapon in the UFC.

Its not s mystery....well I'm from croatia so I'll shed some light on that. We had an opportunity to see him in many interviews after OWGP that weren't translated and published in foreign press.

So, going in to the Silva fight in semifinals Mirko had a broken foot. He had received a painkiller injection to the left foot prior the match.(according to his personal doctor) Go and watch the video - he KO's Silva and a than he is mad, limping around the ring and even pushing the arm of his manager at the time off him. Cause he hurt his foot even more. And he had to face barnett in a few hours.

So he went to the locker room and demanded of his doctor that he gives him another injection. His doctor said that Mirko gave him a look that he could not refuse him, but he gave him a neutral liquid hoping far a placebo effect, cause it would be dangerous to give him more painkillers.

And then he used his foot even more against barnett.
Before coming to uff he had foot surgery and knee surgery. I think his fourth.

 

[Thesaucydog]

For the sake of Mirko's health, he should have retired years ago. I forget which fight it was, but I remember after being defeated in the UFC poor Mirko was having violent twitches. He still gets them. I think that was a clear sign that his mileage was overdue.

 

[dr.Mitch]

it's this, unfortunately. there are a lot of naysayers who worshiped pride but the fact is most of those guys looked much slower and more tentative once they came over.

you can say it was age but the decline was pretty immediate for most of them upon entering the ufc so I doubt it. wand, shogun, nog, crocop, they were pretty quickly shadows of what they were.

and yes rampage and anderson came over and did well but exceptions don't prove the absence of a rule.

Weren't nog and shogun champions in ufc?