Critique my routine!

[TrinitronMaximu]

Alright so I've been on my current routine for a little over 10 weeks and am ready to switch to a new routine. It's basically the routine found here with Oly lifts added in. I'm thinking a 3-day split like this:

Monday:
Squat 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Bench 5x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5 (which should equal the previous Friday's heavy triple)
Power Clean 8x1 Ramping weight to top set of 1 (5lbs over last weeks top lift)
Assistance: 2 sets of weighted hypers and 4 sets of weighted sit-ups

Wednesday:
Front Squat 4x5 First 3 sets are the same as Monday, the 4th set is repeating the 3rd set again
SOHP 4x5 Ramping weight to top set of 5
Deadlift 6x3 Ramping weight to top set of 3
Assistance: 3 sets of sit-ups, 3 sets of towel chins

Friday:
Squat 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Bench 4x5, 1x3, 1x8 First 4 sets are the same as Monday's, the triple is 2.5% above your Monday top set of 5, use the weight from the 3rd set for a final set of 8
Power Snatch 8x1 Ramping weight to top set of 1 (5lbs over last weeks top lift)
Assistance: 3 sets of close-grip bench (5-8 reps), 3 sets of barbell curls and 3 sets of triceps extensions (8 reps)

Here's a few questions I have:
-Is it bad that I have no rowing exercises or will the olympic lifts take care of that?
-What is a good substitute for dips? For whatever reason I can't do them without considerable pain, so I'm thinking push press, floor bench, or pushups

Let me know what you think, thanks!

Edit: replaced dips with close-grip bench, lowered sets on oly

 

[enright3060]

TM:

I think the routine is fine (I'll let others give you more advice about the split and we can talk about it later). What concerns me, however, is that you have been starting to put up a lot of PRs and adding a lot of weight to the barbell each week, which is obviously good (you are close to both a 315 squat and 405 DL). I think that if you continue with that program for a while at some point very soon you will hit a wall with that much volume and intensity and die. Why? You will soon be unable to add more weight to the bar each time you go to the gym - especially when you are squatting 3x a week, DL once, etc. At that point, you will need to change thing up again.

 

[TrinitronMaximu]

Here's what they suggest on the site:

So it's pretty obvious what's going on in this example is weekly increases of 2.5% of your top set of 5 on Monday. So you do 100lbs for 5 on your top set on Monday. Then on Friday you do a triple with 2.5% more, or 102.5. The next Monday you come back and do 102.5 for your heavy set of 5, that Friday the triple is 105 and so on. For the non-squat Wednesday lifts you just increase by the percentage week to week.

Of course you start with a good margin to give yourself a run so you have to back into the initial weeks' weights. That means using some math. Put your current 5 rep maxes at week 4, figure out what 2.5% of the number is and go back and put that for week 3, do that back until you get to week 1. The Friday triple is always the next week's Monday set of 5. Pretty easy.

Some people seem to think this is very slow progress (and maybe it is for a true beginner) but for most lifters this 2.5% weekly is fairly aggressive scaling. Think about building up for 4 weeks and then 2.5% compounded weekly on your personal records after that. If you can even get 4 weeks of PRs, that's over 10% on your lifts in just 8 weeks (there are people who would kill for this and many are lucky to manage 1-2% over that same time frame). People who can keep it up for anywhere near 12 weeks (8 weeks of PRs) are looking at 20%+ on their lifts. Even if one can't get long progression, this is still a good way to go for even a few increments as long as a lifter can make progress like this (and eventually they won't be able to and will have to do something a bit different that looks more like the Advanced version.

Although given the chart and what I've said elsewhere on this page it should be obvious, I will clarify the point that this is not a 9 week program (I think some people have downloaded only the spreadsheet rather than reading since I figured 9 weeks of calculations was enough to get the idea - not much I can do about that).. Youu continue until it stops working. If you are adding 2.5% a week to your big lifts and eating enough to move the scale consistently, there is nothing else you can do from a program perspective to encourage muscular weight gain. Ride the horse and if lifts gives you trouble, either cut some warm up volume or reset it back a few weeks. When the majority of the lifts are stalling, reset the whole program and build back up to PRs over 4 weeks. Maybe change some variables (i.e. use 3x10) and/or some assistance lifts (front squat on Wed, lockouts instead of overhead).

Do you think this will be slow enough progress? Otherwise is there a different routine you would recommend?

 

[noahfor]

Many people have made very good progress with this routine. My girlfriend is using it now, and she has made great progress. She even lost a couple pounds while doing it. I like the changes you made to it.

 

[Cap'n]

Give it a whirl. It's a lot of volume, but you'll find out whether it's too much within a week or two.

 

[ratman201]

O-lifts should be first or not at all. They require the most technique and power. Really do you want to be failing on a max clean or snatch because your legs are jello from squatting first. Also 15 sets seems like a lot on top of bill star 5x5, but if it's working for you then it's all good.

As for rows, if you are going to put a horizontal push in your routine you should have a horizontal pull, you do get a lot of pulling done with the O-lifts though I'd cycle in some rows every few weeks when you feel you need them.

In place of dips you could do a close grip bench, a close grip decline bench, etc... What you do for a tricep exercise isn't going to be as important as doing something as long as you get your main lifts in first.

 

[TrinitronMaximu]

but won't doing olympic lifts first cut down on the weight I can do for Squats/Bench which is the emphasis of this program?

Since I'm relatively new to oly lifting, I thought more practice ~= more weight, but I'll tone it down to 8(?) singles and see how it goes

 

[Chaseg1520]

looking at that routine makes me tired...

 

[ratman201]

but won't doing olympic lifts first cut down on the weight I can do for Squats/Bench which is the emphasis of this program?

Since I'm relatively new to oly lifting, I thought more practice ~= more weight, but I'll tone it down to 8(?) singles and see how it goes

This is my point if you are going for a max in 15 sets for the O-lifts then they should be the focus of the program. Now if they were just straight technique work and not maxes I don't think it would be an issue, it just seems counterproductive and downright dangerous to go for a 1RM on an exercise that uses the whole body after going for 2 - 5RM's on exercises that have already used the whole body. And yes anything that comes first is going to affect what comes last.

My real advice is really just listen to you body though. If you focus on technique during those 15 sets and mix up the light, medium and heavy loads without killing yourself for a true max I really see no problem with them at the end. If you do plan on maxing on the O-lifts any one day though I seriously consider putting them first on that day.

But then again if you are working on technique it should be done as fresh as possible and shouldn't be so taxing that it would detract from what you do next, because you should still be fresh.

Personally what I would do is on day 2 replace the front squats and deadlift with the clean and snatch, switching the order every week, and doing the OHP last that day.

 

[ratman201]

But again like I said before if it's working for you you should be fine, but listen to your body.