Crazily low recommended protein intakes

I train fighters, they all drink shakes. None over 45 grams per serving. But none the less, I employ as many BB diet trends as I do athletic trends. Yet every single client makes progress.

Do I think most people consume to much protein? Ya, do I think a lot of people don't consume enough? Ya. Point beng, you need to look at both sides of the box. Most advances in nutrition and supplement science are based on BB supplement studies etc.

For the record, I rock climb, do yoga, and lift. I don't live BB lifestyle. But both ways have benefits. Just like training both stand up and ground has its benefits.

45g of protein/shake is max, or what?? How accurate is that '30g per shake' thing Mongo is saying?
 
Keep in mind these recommendations are for the average sedentary individual, not an actively training athlete.

Yeh. I think the recommendation is pretty accurate for your average do-nothing to maintain without excess calories. Anyone that does anything active is going to require more protein.
 
45g of protein/shake is max, or what?? How accurate is that '30g per shake' thing Mongo is saying?

I never said anything about 30g specifically. Approximately 30-40g is the maximum amount of protein that can be absorbed at any one sitting for the average size human. That being said, a 400 pound person can probably absorb more. But when you look at some of the meal replacement protein drinks that are marketed to the general public (like Ensure and Boost) they contain less than 20g of protein per serving. That isn't by accident. It is because the general population doesn't need 60g of protein, and very few human beings can use anywhere near 60g of protein in any one sitting.

The reason that a lot of these bodybuilding protein shakes contain so much protein is because bodybuilders want to gain size/weight, and that takes calories. It is much more beneficial for them to gain weight through protein calories instead of fat or carbs. But even professional bodybuilders aren't using all 60g of protein to repair muscle fibers. They are storing the calories so they can be burned off later (instead of burning off muscle).

The USDA suggestions for the average adult are probably accurate. The USDA is actually made up of experts, not government suits or politicians. They do give statistics for the AVERAGE. I completely agree that combat athletes need MORE protein than average adults, just not 500g a day or anything crazy like that.
 
Most advances in nutrition and supplement science are based on BB supplement studies etc.


If people are following these studies for their nutritional intake then I guess they are just completely ignoring reputable soruces like PUBMED that can have an infinite amount of studies that have more merit than a bodybuilding company.
 
Approximately 30-40g is the maximum amount of protein that can be absorbed at any one sitting for the average size human.

I hope you can back this up with something besides a sourceless Randy Couture article.

But when you look at some of the meal replacement protein drinks that are marketed to the general public (like Ensure and Boost) they contain less than 20g of protein per serving. That isn't by accident.

What makes products like Ensure and Boost an authority on ideal protein requirements for the average person? What does the average persons protein requirements have to do with athlete
 
Mongo, there are quite a few inaccuracies in your posts that I think need to be cleared up. It's hard to determine tone through this medium so please understand that this is merely lighthearted discussion -not flaming.

It is a gross misconception how much protein even top level MMA fighters need.

The issue always comes down to minimum requirements vs. optimal. In recent years data have emerged that suggest higher protein intakes for optimal anabolism (think recovery/strength). There are also ways of using fast protein to improve upon this effect.

Randy advocates greens supplements. Do you have any idea how many vegetables you would have to eat to get the same nutrition as a greens supplement?

I agree that green supplements are great, and that people don't eat nearly enough fruits and vegetables. I have a hard time believing that adequate intake couldn't mitigate acidosis/leeching, but I'm always open to having my mind changed.

Secondly, if you are consuming protein shakes with 60+ grams per shake multiple times a day,

I was wondering why you kept referencing 60g protein shakes on pages 2-3 of this thread, so I looked it up. I literally lol'd when I saw that it was YOU who brought it up in the first place! You've started your own argument! No one is talking about 60g of whey here. I think we're all in argument that that's too much for most.

(B) should go post on a powerlifting website because that is not how MMA athletes eat. When was the last time you saw a boxer or MMA fighter look like a round-belly powerlifter? Not often. So why the hell would you eat like one?

Performance specificity is overwhelmingly dictated by training, not nearly as much nutrition. In fact, you might be surprised at the similarities in diets among different athletes (SHW powerlifters excepted).

edit: syntax
 
Found this interesting study...

A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans

It doesn't really answer the question but it seems to provide some interesting technical info. I didn't actually read the entire thing (since I'm at work) so maybe with a more detailed read you could cull some useful facts from it.
 
I hope you can back this up with something besides a sourceless Randy Couture article.

What makes products like Ensure and Boost an authority on ideal protein requirements for the average person? What does the average persons protein requirements have to do with athlete
 
Mongo you have Dave, Monger, and myself trying to talk some sense into you. Either A. You are just not wanting to listen. Or B. Young, dumb, and full of cumb:)
 
Continued

But when you look at some of the meal replacement protein drinks that are marketed to the general public (like Ensure and Boost) they contain less than 20g of protein per serving. That isn't by accident.

I'd be careful about using these drinks to represent the paragon of applied nutrition. They also contain glucose/maltodextrin, and other than pure trans fats, I can't think of a worse nutrient in this situation.

It is because the general population doesn't need 60g of protein, and very few human beings can use anywhere near 60g of protein in any one sitting.

Again, I think we all agree with you. Since we're talking extremes here, I recommend 80g of casein before bed.

The USDA suggestions for the average adult are probably accurate. The USDA is actually made up of experts, not government suits or politicians. They do give statistics for the AVERAGE.

Specificity isn't just for athletes. The recommendations must fit the needs of the people and improve with our level of knowledge. To reiterate what I said earlier, and I believe you also alluded to, if we could drop recommended carb intakes and replace it with protein, it would be far more conducive to general weight loss and maintenance (adherence issues aside).

This is a good discussion. I'm looking forward to everyone's opinion!
 
Mongo, there are quite a few inaccuracies in your posts that I think need to be cleared up. It's hard to determine tone through this medium so please understand that this is merely lighthearted discussion -not flaming.

The issue always comes down to minimum requirements vs. optimal. In recent years data have emerged that suggest higher protein intakes for optimal anabolism (think recovery/strength). There are also ways of using fast protein to improve upon this effect.

I agree that green supplements are great, and that people don't eat nearly enough fruits and vegetables. I have a hard time believing that adequate intake couldn't mitigate acidosis/leeching, but I'm always open to having my mind changed.

I was wondering why you kept referencing 60g protein shakes on pages 2-3 of this thread, so I looked it up. I literally lol'd when I saw that it was YOU who brought it up in the first place! You've started your own argument! No one is talking about 60g of whey here. I think we're all in argument that that's too much for most.

Performance specificity is overwhelmingly dictated by training, not nearly as much nutrition. In fact, you might be surprised at the similarities in diets among different athletes (SHW powerlifters excepted).

edit: syntax

Gotcha, I am not flaming either.

Optimal requirements does not equal as much protein as you can possibly intake in a day. There is such thing as too much. That was my first and initial point. I believe I cited acidity as one of the downfalls of too much protein, although there are additional negatives.

Hardly any fruits contain what greens supplements contain, and most commonly consumed veggies don't either. Regardless, you would have to be eating veggies non-stop all day long to supplement a greens supplement. Check out a greens supplement label and you'll see what I mean.

I keep referencing 60g because the majority of protein powders you will find at a GNC contain that level of protein. There are some that don't but I was just bringing up an example of too much protein. After reading some of the other posts I definitely don't agree that we are all on the same page.

I understand that performance depends a ton on training, but this thread is about protein intake. I didn't start it, I simply brought another view to a thread that had previously been dominated by a bunch of bitching about how the recommended daily value of protein is too low.
 
Continued

I'd be careful about using these drinks to represent the paragon of applied nutrition. They also contain glucose/maltodextrin, and other than pure trans fats, I can't think of a worse nutrient in this situation.

Sorry bro, my wife drinks Boost and I am looking at a bottle right now and there is 0 trans fat. It doesn't say anything about about glucose or maltodextrin, but it only contains 33g of carbs, 16 of which are sugars. That is not too bad if you treat it as a meal replacement.
 
Mongo you have Dave, Monger, and myself trying to talk some sense into you. Either A. You are just not wanting to listen. Or B. Young, dumb, and full of cumb:)

Vedic, don't speak for Monger and Dave. I am having a discussion, the whole purpose of a discussion board. You are one opinion. If I choose not to listen to you that is my right. Don't insult someone for having a discussion.....
 
"I agree that green supplements are great, and that people don't eat nearly enough fruits and vegetables. I have a hard time believing that adequate intake couldn't mitigate acidosis/leeching, but I'm always open to having my mind changed."

Hardly any fruits contain what greens supplements contain, and most commonly consumed veggies don't either. Regardless, you would have to be eating veggies non-stop all day long to supplement a greens supplement. Check out a greens supplement label and you'll see what I mean.

I don't know anyone that goes to the supermarket and buys wheat grass, barley grass, alfalfa grass, oat grass, spirulina, chlorella, dunaliella, dulse, licorice root, eleuthero root, suma root, astragalus root, ginger root, etc.

Greens are not the same thing as eating broccoli.
 
Regardless, you would have to be eating veggies non-stop all day long to supplement a greens supplement.

Wow, didn't know how beneficial they were. GNC Canada doesn't have Maximum Greens :(, so I had to settle on Mega Men multi.. Does that even compare to a greens supplement?
 
Wow, didn't know how beneficial they were. GNC Canada doesn't have Maximum Greens :(, so I had to settle on Mega Men multi.. Does that even compare to a greens supplement?

I've never checked out Mega Men Multi but I am fairly sure that isn't the same as a greens supplement. If Mega Men Multi is a multivitamin then it is definitely not the same. Most of the better greens supplements are powders that you mix with water. They don't taste great but you get used to it pretty quick. There are plenty of websites out there you can order them from also. Couture recommends Light Force Greens (Light Force Nutrition) but they are very expensive.
 
Again, I think we all agree with you. Since we're talking extremes here, I recommend 80g of casein before bed.

Dave, I'm not trying to be confrontational, but in which post am I supposed to conclude that everyone agrees with me about the 60g protein shakes? Looking back all I see is post #20 where Vedic says he maxes his fighters at 45g of protein.
 
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