Couture vs Jacare

Saying Randy stalled the entire match just doesn't make any sense. Its no different than saying that Tank Abbott's bench press wasn't legit because he bounced it off of his chest.

he did not even only stalled, he refused to engage, kind of hard to grapple like that... how would you call what randy did???
 
he did not even only stalled, he refused to engage, kind of hard to grapple like that... how would you call what randy did???

you should try to wrestle someone and stall your way to draw.

watch yourself get launched all over the place.
 
you should try to wrestle someone and stall your way to draw.

watch yourself get launched all over the place.

Easy. Refuse to engage. Harder to get thrown if you avoid the clinch just as it's harder to get subbed if you refuse to open up your defense.
 
Saying Randy stalled the entire match just doesn't make any sense. Its no different than saying that Tank Abbott's bench press wasn't legit because he bounced it off of his chest.

no it makes plenty of sense, many are using that match as evidence randy should be a bjj black belt. the ability to stall and not get subbed were not generally accepted criteria for a bjj black belt last time i checked, so i question what specific skills he displayed there.
 
Easy. Refuse to engage.

impossible. he'd have to literally run off the mats, onto the street and into a cab. if you're on the mat your opponent will eventually get ahold of you. you can stall all you want but you will still get launched.
 
I think people get too attached to their former arts.

That was Couture vs. Jacare - not wrestling vs. bjj.

I don't think people need to read anymore into it than that. If you wrestled, which I did btw, and you think that's all you need to stall vs. Jacare by all means go get your arm ripped off, I'll happily pay the ppv cost.
 
you should try to wrestle someone and stall your way to draw.

watch yourself get launched all over the place.

well, please tell me what did randy do in that match if it wasnt what im saying??? did I say I could do the same to jacare?? or to stall my way to draw with a wrestler??? DID I??? nop, I said randy did that to jacare, im I wrong???

Im not saying randy sucks, im saying randy did that, no more than that...
 
I think people get too attached to their former arts.

That was Couture vs. Jacare - not wrestling vs. bjj.

I don't think people need to read anymore into it than that. If you wrestled, which I did btw, and you think that's all you need to stall vs. Jacare by all means go get your arm ripped off, I'll happily pay the ppv cost.

That's exactly the point. You have to be close enough in skill to avoid and defend in order to stall out the entire match. People are trying to discredit Randy and the point was try letting Jacare attempt the same thing in a Greco match and he would not be able to do it.

As you said If I tried to stall out with Jacare, he would catch me, throw me, and sub me. Prolly in 15 seconds....lol...
 
well, please tell me what did randy do in that match if it wasnt what im saying??? did I say I could do the same to jacare?? or to stall my way to draw with a wrestler??? DID I??? nop, I said randy did that to jacare, im I wrong???

Im not saying randy sucks, im saying randy did that, no more than that...


if Randy stalled his way to a draw, then Jacare did nothing but throw up weak sub attempts and get stuffed over and over.

neither is correct. it was a high level grappling match between two world class athletes who both did the best they could within their respective skill sets to win. you expect Randy, who never competed in submission grappling in his LIFE to go out there and start slicing through Jacare's guard and throwing up mounted go go's? c'mon son. what you are doing is very disrespectful, and your point in moot.

just let it go.


PS:

"??????????????"

fourteen question marks in one post. well done BJJ_Psycho. stay on your meds homie.
 
^^no I did not expect randy to do that, that doesnt mean he didnt stall, am I the only crazy fuk in this thread who thinks he stalled? looks like the only one who thinks he didnt its you...

He stalled and the match was not very entertaining to watch...

please explain how am I being disrespectful??? I did not disrespect randy at all, he stalled, period. I didnt say Randy sucks, Randy this or Randy that...

ps:

may be you should let go the "meds", counting how many ? marks I put on a post.... talking about psycos...
 
impossible. he'd have to literally run off the mats, onto the street and into a cab. if you're on the mat your opponent will eventually get ahold of you. you can stall all you want but you will still get launched.

We're talking Greco vs a smaller guy. There are no lower leg attacks. I feel if Jacare trained Greco for the same amount of time Randy trained sub grappling then Jacare could and would avoid engaging a smaller Greco via defensive grip fighting and mobility. Getting launched would not be an eventually as you say.
 
We're talking Greco vs a smaller guy. There are no lower leg attacks. I feel if Jacare trained Greco for the same amount of time Randy trained sub grappling then Jacare could and would avoid engaging a smaller Greco via defensive grip fighting and mobility. Getting launched would not be an eventually as you say.


no.

he would eventually be forced into par tier. and then all of these things would happen to him.





......but by someone 20lbs heavier than Spenser in Frank Sahin, who would still be 20lb lighter than Jacare, but he would swallow him whole. No disrespect to Jacare, who is an awesome grappler, and one of my all time favorites.
 
it's par terre.

It is of course, unlikely that Jacare could beat an elite wrestler at their own game any more than Mango or Sahin could beat him at his. Would probably be more fair to put Jacare up against an Avluca or Minguzzi.

Equally, it is notable that Randy could go the distance with Jacare (who is arguably the best meio pesado player of the '00s), one can assume more than a decade of MMA has made Randy more than just a wrestler when it comes to grappling.

As before, i would love to see elite wrestlers (and Samboists and judoka) in their competitive prime in ADCC, i think they would definitely make a big impact, but i guess it is unlikely (given if they were in their prime they would be competing in their actual sport).
 
You are on the right path but also you are a little off center. In the type of match they grappled in it took away Randy's greatest advantage and biggest asset in wrestling. The takedown.

Remember also in the international wrestling styles exposure is rewarded, not control. It is all about exposing the opponents back in FS/Greco, while holding them there CAN win the match just exposing the back scores. So those styles train to take a man to his feet and towards his back. If you think of a Judo Ippon, this is also the same type of throw or takdown that gets rewarded the most.



This is why you see moves like a leg lace score or gut wrench or gator roll. They dont show control, they simply "expose" the man's back to the mat.

So you take away 2 of Randy's 3 most practiced areas by having rules like you stated, all he has left then is the pin in which case this type of event does not reward him pinning in guard so he has to pass which a wrestler in a wrestling match would not bother doing.

I dont see how this allows Randy to use his strengths. It would have been a MUCH close "mixed style" match had Jacare somehow been forced to stand by rewarding Randy with takedowns points if Jacare conceded the takedown by pulling guard.

Randy was forced to "wrestle" the entire fight in Jacare's element while Jacare was NOT forced to "wrestle" In Randy's.

I dont see how you can make that argument. Especially in a grappling match. In a "fight" or mma bout, ok because of the strikes there would be some way to punish the guy who pulls guard, even if you cannot pass.

To fair, Jacare's element would probably be with agi. I understand the scoring is different, but Randy still had all his takedown options.
 
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