Countering a south paws overhand left?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Thaijitsu612, Jan 4, 2013.

  1. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    Anyone have any good counters for someone who throws a lot of overhands from the opposite stance? other then a teep(theyre a couple inches shorter) I dont really have any that have been successful. I want a good counter to make him hesitant to keep throwing them.
     
  2. TheMadHatter

    TheMadHatter Red Belt

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    shortest distance between two points is the straight, he will be leaving himself open for it, just don't get hit with the overhand because you leave yourself open too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2013
  3. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

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    here's a pretty effective one:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

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    [​IMG]

    of course, it's easy to say do what floyd did.
     
  5. R.N.J.

    R.N.J. Purple Belt

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    bait him into throwing it then step back slightly to the left (out of the way of the punch) he'll be off balance and you can nail him right cross or uppercut. Or duck under it and nail him with a right hand. There are a number of things you could do. I'm no expert.
     
  6. PeterPain

    PeterPain Brown Belt

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    Beat me to it!
     
  7. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

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    i would think a left overhand could be countered with:

    jab
    cross
    hook
    uppercut

    and any combination of the above.
     
  8. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    I think the problem I've been having with the straight is he ducks down and my hand would hit the top of his head and his punch would still catch me. Looking at that gif Its probably because I dont move off to the side.
     
  9. Seven30

    Seven30 Brown Belt

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    The first thing you want to do is make sure your lead foot is outside of his lead foot. This will give you the proper angle to throw, while keeping yourself off line & making yourself a more difficult target for his counter. Then throw your straight right hand. Yours should get there first & should have more power (varies) than his left, as straights carry more power than overhands (even though many think that the big overhand bomb is the biggest gun in their arsenal). Try to keep the punch as short & straight as possible. The Big Country gif is not a good example. It worked for him in that specific instance, but I would NEVER recommend anyone lead with an uppercut like that. Especially when a guy is throwing at you. There are situations (& fighters) where you can get away with it, but that's not the ideal at all. In fact, I wouldn't even show that gif as a suggestion to someone like yourself who is trying to learn how to deal with this scenario (& I mean no disrespect to whoever posted that gif). You may need a bit more experience in exchanges before you want to experiment with that one....again, only in a situation where it quickly presents itself. Experience is what will allow you to see it as it is unfolding so you can slip that uppercut in there. Anyways, try the straight right hand....but make sure you give yourself proper angle.
     
  10. kidnic

    kidnic Purple Belt

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    Since you use a lot of head movement and your knees are always bent...move to your right, right hook to the body.
    [​IMG]
    Its open.
     
  11. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I'm not sure about any of this. In the post above yours the TS describes his situation. He's dealing with a shorter guy and his straight goes either over the guy's head, or into the top of it. Recommending the straight at that point sounds like a good way to break his hand. It also suggests that the guy might not be stupid, and is going low with his head to avoid that very punch. Besides, as you suggest in your post, securing positioning FOR a punch insures it's safety, thus, throwing an uppercut is no more risky than throwing the straight if the proper angle is secured ahead of time, or the punch is timed well. Roy knew he could throw uppercuts in that bout, that his opponent had no idea how to defend against them. So he did, that's why it worked, it wasn't a chance punch.

    To the TS, you can slip overhand punches just like straight punches. You may need to bend your knees to assure the punch goes sailing over whichever shoulder you prefer. Depending on which way you slip, is the counter you use. If you slip left, when you pull back to stance you bring a hook with it. Either to the body or to the head (if he's low, throwing to the body is smart because it'll hit SOMETHING. Whereas a high hook may miss everything). If you slip to your right, his inside, there will be a nice opening for an uppercut to the body. If you accompany either slip with a step in the same direction, you'll completely have either the inside or outside angle. What I would not recommend, is giving ground (moving back), unless you plan to use it to bait him and try to beat his punch the way Nelson did with his uppercut (always a good punch against shorter opposition). If you just back up, it says to him that you fear the punch and he can use it to MAKE you back up when he wants. That's not discouraging.
     
  12. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

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    Its like you've watched me spar lol. Im going to try working that slip to my right and then to the body, and to the left and an uppercut.

    I usually start off ok and somewhat disciplined but start just backing up after I kinda panic because this guy goes harder then I'm comfortable with.
     
  13. Seven30

    Seven30 Brown Belt

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    Yeah...TS must have posted that as I was typing. I didn't factor any of that into my answer. As for the uppercut, that's why I said "In certain situations it can be used." But by no means is that ideal. If you're positioned right, you can find an opening. But from a standard "Traditional vs. Southpaw" stance....that's generally a no-no. As to your advice on the scenario, I agree with you. If he were to slip the punch with a step (which is what I would do), I would not pull back into position because that's most likely where his next punch is going to be aimed (although if I did, I would do so with the hook as you mentioned). I would continue to go in the direction of the step. It keeps the angle I want & forces my opponent to turn to me, which is always a position I like to put people in. Many people say that I look like I'm trying to get behind my opponent when I fight....& it's because I am...lol. What better angle is that? Whichever way he turns to face me is just him letting me know which hand he wants to get hit with...lol. Good stuff, bro. I see you actually fight or train.
     
  14. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Mostly train people, but thanks. Your revisions are commendable as well.
     
  15. Seven30

    Seven30 Brown Belt

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    That's what I meant by train...:D
     
  16. KounterPunch

    KounterPunch Purple Belt

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    That's my favorite way .

    My coach was 10-1 vs southpaws with his only loss coming in his first time(?) out.
    Always been disdainful of them , he has.
    Was going to fight one of the finest of them all (at the time and in his weight class) in Casamayor but the silly bastard (Casamayor) refused to get on the plane about 2-3 weeks before the fight due to that bird / swine flu (?) thing going around in the early 2000s.

    So yeah , lots of tricks n moves vs southpaws.
    Doesn't bother me at all.
     
  17. KounterPunch

    KounterPunch Purple Belt

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    That's a horrible one afaik but he managed to pull it off.
     
  18. KounterPunch

    KounterPunch Purple Belt

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    A straight right or cross or a rear uppercut .
    The other two are low percentage with the jab being the lowest of all.
    Not very defensively sound are those last two.
     
  19. KounterPunch

    KounterPunch Purple Belt

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    What u can try is widening your stance and dip down WITH him.
    Actually , DROP down with him would be more accurate .

    The most economical way of doing that is fading your right foot back and to the right. You don't move your lead foot back though.
    What that does is give you the right angle , takes you out of the arc of his punch AND lowers your level without bending at the waist (because your feet are now wider apart) which gives you another layer of defense because your head's now lower than he thought. 4 things with one move .....nice , huh ?

    You have to be proactive with that right foot placement though.
    Constantly darting the foot into position and back instead of trying to react to him.
    See Tommy Hearns or since this board has an old school fetish :) see Benny Leonard .
     
  20. ssullivan80

    ssullivan80 see....what had happened was

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    Actually, I'd say that this counter (Roy didn't make it look pretty at all) is far higher percentage (even more so with that uc to the body) and more defensively sound shot than the clip you posted of PBF countering Ortiz's left. Shoulder rolling and simultaneously countering with a right across your body is the kind of counter that only guys like PBF are really skilled enough to make consistently effective. PBF was also throwing lead rights and simultaneously ducking Ortiz's left, silly shit that us mere mortals aren't nearly as capable of.
     

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