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Couldn't finish a keylock.

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by BobSacamano, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. BobSacamano White Belt

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    I fought someone with less time than me on the mat last night. He has about 2 months in, where I have a little more than 4. Both of us are noobs. He is very strong and still uses the ol' bullrush from the knees noob technique. (I sort of grew out of that recently). I pull guard and pretty much control him from there, no big deal since he probably doesn't know how to pass guard yet. We jerk around like that for a bit. I work on the different guard positions, etc. etc. Eventually through brute strength he passes. I let him get me in full mount. I upa and end up in his guard. I easily go to side mount. From there I want to work the keylock. I have a hard time explaining the exact position of my hands and arms, but lets assume my "first" arm is in the correct position. forearm and elbow is tight against the mat and me hand is gripping is wrist. I slip the other arm underneath his arm and I grip my wrist.

    I "crank". Nothing. I "crank harder. Nothing. I pull his elbow closer to his body...nothing. This went on for like a minute until the round was over. What are some of the things I could have been doing wrong? Is it possible he is that strong/thick in the arm, that it had no effect? We are similar in size, but he is stronger than me but I can't see how just arm/ shoulder strentgh would be able to stop that. I am still a noob so I could have been doing a million things wrong. This happen to anyone?
     
  2. Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    Pull his elbow to his hip. Also use a goose-neck to get more pressure. Also try using your hips by pressuring into him slightly facing his hips (i.e. drop your head-side hip more). That should probably work.

    Sometimes you just can't get the keylock/americana though. That's when you switch to the straight armlock (without changing your grip). I also have gotten success with the V-1 Pillow lock. Both of these flow off of the keylock. See the transitions in the beginning-middle of this lockflow:

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  3. make sure you slide his hand down on the mat as you crank up, keep his arm bent, and keep his body pinned, he will tap, even if he does have abnormally flexible shoulders
     
  4. stlnl2 Blue Belt

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    Frodo is correct (though I dont have much success going for the straight lock from americana, I have much better rate of finish going to straight from Kimura, but this is because I start looking for Kimura as soon as that arm starts to straighter/I "help" them put their hand towards their leg and try to get them as they attempt underhook, and then attack straight from kimura grip should that miss) And I would add, make certain your weight is HEAVY on his upper chest (think of putting your lat across his chest high enough to touch his collar bone on the attacked side. This keeps him from turning any at all with the lock and increases your leverage greatly.

    Also as discussed, keep in mind Americana is usually a hit or miss against better guys or guys who are freak strong, but makes a good spot to start transitioning alot of other moves depending on their path of defense. Train the things you do after as well, and the Americana can stay part of the arsenal for a long time (lots of newbs drop it after a year, due to low finish rate on guys, whether because of tech flaws or because they dont flow after) as a great set up if not a one shot kill.
     
  5. TalkShowOnMute dancingonthecorpsesashes

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    aww man, I got caught in a nasty one of those last night. I felt abad pressure on my shoulder but let it go on for a while...no injury, but I now feel that my right shoulder is twice as flexible by force :)


    Also got my elbow popped by a fast armbar...hurts a bit on the inside, I think I should still be able to train tonight but I have less pulling strength in the arm for sure...

    any advice to heal it up better or just RICE it?
     
  6. anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    Dont lift your elbow off the ground. Like they said, pull his elbow down to his ribs. Then, roll both of your wrists forward which will hurt him like hell no matter how flexible he is.
     
  7. SuperSuperRambo Steel Belt

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    Sounds like from the description the guy is bigger and stronger than you, and when that's the case I find the keylock isn't the best sub to go with, even if you're a white belt. Remember when applying the submission to slide his hand along the mat towards his feet, rather than trying to crank the elbow upwards.
     
  8. krait Purple Belt

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    Just a side note here. Slide the hand along the mat towards his feet. DO NOT yank it. When done correctly the keylock gets real nasty real fast. Be careful. We were drilling this awhile back and I was paired with a real new guy. He wasn't moving my hand down so I remined him about it. Next thing I know he just yanks my hand down and I thought my shoulder was going to rip out.
     

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