Could the ATF Have Prevented the Waco Massacre?

WaylonMercy5150 said:
The Order was from guys that attended the same white supremacist get together's in Idaho as Randy Weaver who would go on to be the center of the Ruby Ridge incident.
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Sure were, although there’s some debate still about how much the Weavers were involved ideologically, as opposed to just making some cash off selling guns.
 
jonharrison said:
Sure were, although there’s some debate still about how much the Weavers were involved ideologically, as opposed to just making some cash off selling guns.
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He made friends with an informant. Could have been months he was there could have been a one time thing but he really got unlucky there. He says he doesn't share their beliefs, the FBI/ US Marshals believes he does/did.
 
The Branch Dividians would have hurt nobody if left alone. Land of the Free? I don't think so.
 
They had to end the occupation and make arrests somehow. The last time they tried to enter they got lit up. Koresh needed to be arrested.
 
rearnakedchoke said:
They had to end the occupation and make arrests somehow. The last time they tried to enter they got lit up. Koresh needed to be arrested.
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I understand that, just curious why their technique included so much antagonizing. They knew Koresh was a nut hellbent on Armageddon.
 
The thing that really bothers me about this was how the dude from the Ruby Ridge fuck up offered to try and help talk Koresh down and those in charge basically told him to go fuck himself.

WaylonMercy5150 said:
The Order was from guys that attended the same white supremacist get together's in Idaho as Randy Weaver who would go on to be the center of the Ruby Ridge incident.
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Rub Ridge was before Waco though I think.
 
Like with all "swat style raids" why the fuck didn't they just post up incognito outside the place and arrest as many as they could when they left to go run regular errands that everyone has to do?

Why aren't all arrests served in this manner? Besides feeling like Rambo what reasons do the police have for kicking down doors and running through places like a bunch of cowboys?
 
MaxMMA said:
Like with all "swat style raids" why the fuck didn't they just post up incognito outside the place and arrest as many as they could when they left to go run regular errands that everyone has to do?

Why aren't all arrests served in this manner? Besides feeling like Rambo what reasons do the police have for kicking down doors and running through places like a bunch of cowboys?
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For some reason when they blasted Nancy Sinatra all night that really bothered me. Such a petty act.
 
ISTR that Koresh made a trip into town every week to pick up and post mail. If that was true, the ATF could have taken him then, with little risk of things getting out of hand.
 
MaxMMA said:
Why aren't all arrests served in this manner? Besides feeling like Rambo what reasons do the police have for kicking down doors and running through places like a bunch of cowboys?
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Drug raids I can get busting in the doors. If you start slowly nibbling at the edges drug rings get wise and start moving the stash house and shit like that.

Hostage raids is the same way. You nibble at the edges and they change up patterns and shit.

In this instance though the ATF were fucking dumbshits in how they handled the whole situation.
 
lifelessheap said:
Didn't some FBI prick shoot a 14 year old's dog to kick that off? So stupid. And then an FBI sniper just started offing people? Including a mom holding an infant? Fucked
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he got away with it too because the new prosecutor dropped all of his charges. what a piece of shit.
 
While the people at Ruby Ridge and the Branch Dividian or however you spell it were fucked people the way the government went about dealing with them is even worse.
 
Gregolian said:
The thing that really bothers me about this was how the dude from the Ruby Ridge fuck up offered to try and help talk Koresh down and those in charge basically told him to go fuck himself.
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his court date was on the 20th but the feds came with a bench warrant on the 14th. The judge knew the date was wrong but didn’t rescind the warrant. With all the informants they basically harassed the guy to death.
 
Michaelangelo said:
his court date was on the 20th but the feds came with a bench warrant on the 14th. The judge knew the date was wrong but didn’t rescind the warrant. With all the informants they basically harassed the guy to death.
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The situation as a whole is/was completely jacked up
 
Michaelangelo said:
his court date was on the 20th but the feds came with a bench warrant on the 14th. The judge knew the date was wrong but didn’t rescind the warrant. With all the informants they basically harassed the guy to death.
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Gregolian said:
The situation as a whole is/was completely jacked up
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Randy Weaver got paid in full afterwards tho. Not saying at all that it was worth it but it is safe to saw now he is a very wealthy man.
 
WaylonMercy5150 said:
I've been reading about this event again for the last few days and am wondering if there is anything they could have done during the very first encounter that could have prevented the ensuing massacre?
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They could have arrested him when he was out and about. If they thought he was building an arsenal then it's pretty dumb to allow him access to it when trying to take him in.
 
Reminds me of 1985 when the US government started a shootout with a political group and then bombed their own people which ended up starting a massive fire burning down miles of houses....



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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing
 
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