Could Rampage's Throw Have Potentially KO'ed Or Injured Bader?

[KSchwarz]

youre allowed to spike if theres rotation. Legal

whats illegal are straight down pile drivers

15. Fouls

A. The following acts constitute fouls in a contest or exhibition of mixed martial arts and may result in penalties, at the discretion of thereferee, if committed:

xxix. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck

The rules don't say anything about rotation.

 

[Emjay]

Any throw has the potential to injure or KO

 

[TheComebackKid]

I had completely forgotten about that one

Legal or not, I'd say it's a bit irresponsible. Even in a sport where
you repeatedly punch a grounded opponent in the face pretty regularily.

A KO is one thing, a broken neck is another. That could've potentially
ended the fight, and in the worst case, Bader's career.

That was Bader's fault that he landed on his neck. You can see Page try to turn the slam over so Bader would land on his back but Bader tried to squirm out of it after Rampage already left his feet..

 

[Wefee]

[x] no

 

[phil the void]

You can read the rules here:

http://www.abcboxing.com/unified_mma_rules.html

The verbiage is very specific, so you would basically have to do a full blown WWE style pile driver to break the rule. Seems rather pointless, since the likelihood of pulling off a move like that without cooperation is negligible.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

15. Fouls

A. The following acts constitute fouls in a contest or exhibition of mixed martial arts and may result in penalties, at the discretion of thereferee, if committed:

xxix. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck

The rules don't say anything about rotation.

He's probably implying the act of "spiking" implies a straight up-and-down movement. When there's rotation in the movement, you aren't really spiking them, rather slamming them. They just happen to come down at the last second in a spiking motion.

That's my guess, at least. We'd need to see the book definition of "spiking," if it exists.

 

[Chules]

 

[sturmgeist]

KSchwarz, the rules also don't state anything specific about striking to the back of the head when the victim turns his head after the punch is thrown, but we all know that in that case, a judgement call is made silently by the referee if it's seen as to the intent of the striker. In this case, Rampage was trying a simple scoop front slam to land in side control, nothing more. Bader endangered himself with that little stunt he pulled trying to escape it rather than hanging on for the ride. Nobody with any amount of sense would blame Jackson if things had gone badly, just as nobody with any sense SHOULD have blamed Marquardt for a spiking move when he tried to flatten that one guy out belly down to the ground with a flapjack. He got spiked on his head because he risked a stupid reversal attempt without the skill or knowledge to pull it off.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

You can read the rules here:

http://www.abcboxing.com/unified_mma_rules.html

The verbiage is very specific, so you would basically have to do a full blown WWE style pile driver to break the rule. Seems rather pointless, since the likelihood of pulling off a move like that without cooperation is negligible.

"27.. Spiking the opponent to the canvas onto the head or neck (pile-driving)

A pile driver is considered to be any throw where you control your opponent's body placing his feet straight up in the air with his head straight down and then forcibly drive your opponents head into the canvas or flooring material. It should be noted when a fighter is placed into a submission hold by their opponent, if that fighter is capable of elevating their opponent they may bring that opponent down in any fashion they desire because they are not in control of their opponents body. The fighter who is attempting the submission can either adjust their position, or let go of their hold before being slammed to the canvas. "

The question is: Does the rotation prior to the spiking disqualify it from being considered a pile-driver? It does look like he was going to slam Bader on his back and Bader ended up shifting his weight in a way that put his neck at risk. Plus Rampage probably realized too late into the motion that Bader was heavier/he wasn't as strong as he thought.

Like most things, this is obviously up to the ref's discretion. It's not as straightforward as some other proscriptions listed there, like "no groin shots."

Less impact on this one, but still head first..

"It should be noted when a fighter is placed into a submission hold by their opponent, if that fighter is capable of elevating their opponent they may bring that opponent down in any fashion they desire because they are not in control of their opponents body."

 

[arrmike]

That was Bader's fault that he landed on his neck. You can see Page try to turn the slam over so Bader would land on his back but Bader tried to squirm out of it after Rampage already left his feet..

I thought I was the only one....that is quite obviously Bader's fault.

Comparing that to the Randleplex couldn't be a worse comparison. Randleplex is one of the best breakfalls ever. Bader looks like he's trying the worst.

 

[Mad Villain]

Has a ref ever done anything when a fighter spikes an opponent? I would"ve thought the moves in Casey/Samman, Varner/Vuillard, Jones/Belfort, Page/Bader etc were illegal but refs never do anything about it so I guess it's fine

 

[Mad Villain]

Guillard** damn autocorrect and dubbs

 

[trane]

Has a ref ever done anything when a fighter spikes an opponent? I would"ve thought the moves in Casey/Samman, Varner/Vuillard, Jones/Belfort, Page/Bader etc were illegal but refs never do anything about it so I guess it's fine

It seems the refs have at least a better understanding than you guys

 

[Dart Feld]

Has a ref ever done anything when a fighter spikes an opponent? I would"ve thought the moves in Casey/Samman, Varner/Vuillard, Jones/Belfort, Page/Bader etc were illegal but refs never do anything about it so I guess it's fine

Nate was deducted a point iirc.

Casey/Samman and Jones/Belfort are acceptable under the rules because when a spiking happens while defending a sub it's interpreted that the both fighters contribute to those. Plus the fighter attempting the sub has the option to relinquish the hold before they are slammed.

Varner/Guillard was a unique situation where Varner and Guillard were in an awkward position while battling for control to begin the exchange so it was a judgement call by the ref.

 

[AppliedScience]

You can read the rules here:

http://www.abcboxing.com/unified_mma_rules.html

While looking at that, I also read:
"The ring specifications for mixed martial arts must meet the following requirements1) The ring may be no smaller than twenty feet square and no larger than thirty-two feet square within the ropes..."

Imagine a twenty feet square ring (five feet by four feet). Some people have large bathtubs.

 

[liverkick83]

That was Bader's fault that he landed on his neck. You can see Page try to turn the slam over so Bader would land on his back but Bader tried to squirm out of it after Rampage already left his feet..

That's how I see it also it was bader basically panicking that made it look so bad

 

[Mad Villain]

Nate was deducted a point iirc.

Casey/Samman and Jones/Belfort are acceptable under the rules because when a spiking happens while defending a sub it's interpreted that the both fighters contribute to those. Plus the fighter attempting the sub has the option to relinquish the hold before they are slammed.

Varner/Guillard was a unique situation where Varner and Guillard were in an awkward position while battling for control to begin the exchange so it was a judgement call by the ref.

ahh okay thanks. And lol @ Marquardt, never watched that fight, shit's crazy lmao.. It's like that thing the Undertaker does

 

[trident]

Image not showing.

If you're talking about THAT throw, he should have been cut on the spot.

I hope I am misunderstanding you, but Bader landed like he did because of Bader. Rampage would have landed him on his back had he not stuck his arm out.

 

[KyouLose]

some good shit in this thread. Thx to Rex and Mad Villian for their posts. This has been a point of confusion for me for some time now. I.E. i've seen several spikes before and not understood why they were legal. I feel better now.

 

[boss429]

What do you think?

My opinion, if Rampage could've lifted him a bit higher, it could've been bad. He landed directly on his neck. He probably would've been KO'ed/Neck damage.

If he landed right on his head he probably would have just rolled for the armbar and won the fight, although maybe only Fedor can pull that one off.