Could anybody outwrestle/outgrapple Karelin (in prime)

Are you sure Werdum would sub him? I know greco isn't bjj but 290lbs athletic guy with greatest wrestling in history and bear like strength is probably hard to submit. You remember Sapp vs Nog? Sapp lost but only after he got gassed by beating up Nog like he was a child. Sure, Nog isn't Werdum, Sapp weighs more than Karelin and Sapp probably had some grappling experience but I still think that Karelin is both athletically superior and better grappler.

Bob Sapp had been training MMA, and therefore submission wrestling, for years by the time he fought Nog. Also Nogs game depends a lot on grabbing the wrists, which isn't very effective when you give up 100 pounds. Look at Royce vs Akebono. Akebono is a very accomplished sumo wrestle who had like 400 pounds on Royce, and Royce couldn't even close his guard. He still subbed him.

People that have never done any form of submission wrestling simply can't comprehend just how awful they are at it until they have tried it. Even hulking 300 lb monsters get made to look like chumps by 125 lb men because they simply don't know what they're doing.

With that said, wrestlers pick up submissions and submission defense very very quickly because they already understand general grappling movements and have developed all of the right muscle groups. So if Karelin just decide one day he felt like grappling with Werdum yes he would take him down and then get murder stomped, but if he took a year or so to learn the BJJ/catch wrestling/sambo/judo/whatever basics then yes he might be able to avoid Werdums subs on the ground. Even then, that's far from a guarantee.
 
the only reason Karelin is so famous is because he was the "russian experiment" during the cold war, when americans had fear and suggestion about russians.

it's like Ivan Drago in Rocky 4.
what's funny is that in reality, even in 2014, the russians train like Rocky (see videos of Fedor or the recent video of Kharitonov traning for Glory) while the ones using technology and science are the americans.

apparently nobody give a shit about Artur Taymazov, who is as scary as Karelin, but he didn't live in the cold war time.
 
If a NFL-guy would spend a year or two doing wrestling and bjj I think they could beat him. The top NFL-guys are probably the crown of evolution in terms of physical fitness.

No. Rugby players would smoke them ( they actually have stamina for mor then 5 seconds ). Also if you open an enzyclopedia under big prime athlete the page is full of pictures of Karelin.

He was (maybe since the dawn of times but surely for the 20th century) the very top of the food chain in a sport thousands of years old and having more active competitors then any other sport in the world.
 
the only reason Karelin is so famous is because he was the "russian experiment" during the cold war, when americans had fear and suggestion about russians.

Well this and the fact that he did not only go unbeaten for a long time but also did not give away a single point for several years.
 
he did dabble in mma. go to youtube

I'm pretty sure that's a worked pro wrestling match, it certainly looks it to me and RINGS was still a mix of the two at that point only becoming fully legit in 99.
 
the only reason Karelin is so famous is because he was the "russian experiment" during the cold war, when americans had fear and suggestion about russians.

it's like Ivan Drago in Rocky 4.
what's funny is that in reality, even in 2014, the russians train like Rocky (see videos of Fedor or the recent video of Kharitonov traning for Glory) while the ones using technology and science are the americans.

apparently nobody give a shit about Artur Taymazov, who is as scary as Karelin, but he didn't live in the cold war time.

Most of his time at the top was post USSR so I'm not sure that was the only reason, it was more the manner of his performances.

I'm sure if you go to Uzbekistan a lot of people give a shit about Taymazov where he's likely a national hero. That really explains why these guys will never fight in MMA, they can earn excellent money staying in the sport they grew up in from either government funding of there general fame.
 
the only reason Karelin is so famous is because he was the "russian experiment" during the cold war, when americans had fear and suggestion about russians.

it's like Ivan Drago in Rocky 4.
what's funny is that in reality, even in 2014, the russians train like Rocky (see videos of Fedor or the recent video of Kharitonov traning for Glory) while the ones using technology and science are the americans.

apparently nobody give a shit about Artur Taymazov, who is as scary as Karelin, but he didn't live in the cold war time.

Yet I mentioned Taymazov in the opening post. Do people read the opening post or only the title?
 
Jon Jones would ragdoll him. He's another level of modern athlete. If he was using the roids that Karelin was, it would be easy.
 
If he'd say switched to MMA after the Atlanta games in 96 and cross trained reasonably well I think Karelin would likely have dominated HW for several years until guys like Nog and Fedor appeared who could threaten him both standing and on the ground.

Nobody can take anyone down like its a formality in MMA though, we had that myth once in the late 90's and again from the UFC around Brock's reign, the threat of strikes can be a great equaliser.
 
He didn't do mma. He did a pro wrestling work. That was not mma.

I know it was said to be pro wrestling but my post was answer to the post I quoted. I didn't say it necessarily was legit match but officially it was MMA to my understanding.
 
The only who could beat Karelin, IMO, are Yamashita and Artur Taymazov.
 
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