Could anybody outwrestle/outgrapple Karelin (in prime)

Discussion in 'The Lightweights' started by Y0cc3, May 27, 2014.

  1. Y0cc3

    Y0cc3 Blue Belt

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    I was reading old Finnish article about Karelin which said his reach is 220cm, that's probably like 86 inches. I started thinking about him in MMA, and yes, I know he fought Maeda.
    We obviously cannot say anything about his ability/potential in striking since there's no data but everybody, even someone who knows nothing about combat, knows his ability in throwing people on their heads and physically manipulating their whole body the way he wants to. 13 years undefeated against international elite, 3 Olympic golds+1 silver in infamous Gardner match, 9 world championships and 6 years of not giving one single point to his opponent in any match. That's like boxer not losing a round for 6 years (or actually much more since boxers fight 1-4 times a year while wrestlers wrassle much more frequently). Maybe boxer not losing a round in 15 years?
    That's some serious shit right there.

    Is there a man in combat history who could beat this man without outsriking him?
    Anything; judo, freestyle, greco, sambo, bjj, sw,folk style... whatever.

    Now, I have tried and tried to find videos of greco roman wrestlers vs freestyle wrestlers in grappling matches but couldn't find any. Could Artur Taymazov (amazing freestyle wrestler) outwrestle him? Or could Karelin stuff his double legs, single legs and trips with his unseen power, balance and reach? We know for sure Artur has nothing in greco clinch against Alex but maybe Alex lacks freestyle skills (though in Europe, or at least in Finland our greco guys start training both since childhood and train freestyle for long time while they might compete only in greco).
    What about Fedor? Is his sweeps, guard, submissions and trips able to defeat freak like Karelin? He lost to Bigfoot because of sheer difference in size but Bigfoot is bjj black belt. Could Fedor take advantage of Karelin's lack of submissions or positional wrestling?
    Then what about good MMA wrestlers with folk style background+possible grappling skills like Cormier, Velasquez, Jones, Lesnar, Kerr... I think Velasquez and Jones can be counted out because they like to manipulate in the clinch which doesn't work against Karelin, Cormier probably too because he also likes the clinch and is probably just way too small against Karelin. But Lesnar and (IIRC) Kerr are big, strong and explosive guys with good shoots and they don't need to clinch or manipulate to get it to the ground; they can run through your hips!

    Then some judokas? I don't know many but someone like Teddy Riner. He's legit ain't he?Or maybe some others, well whoever there is. Judo people, you can name judokas better than me.

    BJJ or SW guys are interesting too. Could Monson, Sperry, Werdum, Fernando Boi, Mir, Barnett or anyone else pull submission from bottom or sweep and top submission? Or would the wrestling and athletic ability of Karelin be too much to handle for anyone to submit him with bjj?


    I'm more of a striking guy so don't take my word for it but I think nobody could submit Karelin from the bottom, nobody could sweep him and nobody could win him in the clinch. I think that if, IF, somebody can win him by grappling, it's other super heavyweight with legit wrestling skills and explosive lower body takedowns (Lesnar, Taymazov) who can take advantage of Karelin's possibly lacking freestyle skills.
    Has Karelin ever done freestyle? Does anyone know?
     
  2. Cyantist

    Cyantist Red Belt

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    I've always thought no was the correct answer and that Karelin would have cleaned up if he moved into MMA.
     
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  3. 5H3RD0G

    5H3RD0G Silver Belt

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    It depends what kind of wrestler he was. Some are better at it when entangled but some aren't good if they have to capture an opponent that can move in many ranges. Obviously he was accomplished in a tournament style but MMA who knows if he could keep up with the athleticism or if he had the endurance.
     
  4. thechoice2

    thechoice2 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    If prime Karelin and Werdum were in a grappling match, Karelin takes him down and gets subbed.
     
  5. pepo6ka

    pepo6ka Blue Belt

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    U mad bro? Karelin is the definition of athleticism.
     
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  6. footodors

    footodors Brown Belt

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    he did dabble in mma. go to youtube
     
  7. Y0cc3

    Y0cc3 Blue Belt

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    Are you sure Werdum would sub him? I know greco isn't bjj but 290lbs athletic guy with greatest wrestling in history and bear like strength is probably hard to submit. You remember Sapp vs Nog? Sapp lost but only after he got gassed by beating up Nog like he was a child. Sure, Nog isn't Werdum, Sapp weighs more than Karelin and Sapp probably had some grappling experience but I still think that Karelin is both athletically superior and better grappler.
     
  8. Y0cc3

    Y0cc3 Blue Belt

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    People clearly don't read the posts. I said he did MMA :D
     
  9. Sosua

    Sosua Yeah nah

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    He would be a fucking handful for sure if he Learnt sub defense and striking fundamentals.
     
  10. Hankhill

    Hankhill Brown Belt

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    Dan Cormier and Brock Lesnar.
     
  11. instance

    instance Orange Belt

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    If a NFL-guy would spend a year or two doing wrestling and bjj I think they could beat him. The top NFL-guys are probably the crown of evolution in terms of physical fitness.
     
  12. Bubson Bubba

    Bubson Bubba Purple Belt

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    Werdum will get taken down. And we know the rest of the story.
     
  13. Ancient Warrior

    Ancient Warrior Gold Belt

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    I think Karelin would manhandle anyone on the planet.

    With that said, the large, talented submission guys could sub him if they're able to survive the earlier part of the match.
     
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  14. Shagrath

    Shagrath Orange Belt

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    Lol, read who Karelin was before posting. He was not called "The Experiment" for nothing.
     
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  15. Obsidian

    Obsidian Brown Belt

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    Plenty of people could in freestyle.
     
  16. green giant

    green giant Honor still means something................

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    You guys and your "nfl guys would make the best fighters". A born fighter easily beats the best most athletic nfl guys. Athleticism is only one aspect of many aspects of fighting. A tough,born fighter is much more important as we have seen time and again.
     
  17. Y0cc3

    Y0cc3 Blue Belt

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    I asked in the first post whether there are grappling matches between freestyle and greco.
     
  18. Uncommon Valor

    Uncommon Valor Super Fly

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    Prime Karelin vs prime Tyson in UFC 1.
     
  19. HerpDerp

    HerpDerp ambitiously unambitious

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    This thread lacks some Karelin lift.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. FEDORER

    FEDORER Green Belt

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    Yasuhiro Yamashita:
    [YT]9dMHxeCdpFs[/YT]
     

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