Could a boxer take Kyokushin bare knuckle body punching from the get go?

[ironkhan57]

Only partly true, a punch with wraps and gloves does not mean bareknuckle is the same. Alignment and wrist support makes a difference.
Plus alot of Kyokushin guys condition their knuckles.
And you cant generalize, 'a boxer punches harder', depends on the boxer and the Kyokushunkai.



Then why not just STFU and learn rather than spamming an ignorant uninformed opinion on something you admit you know nothing about?
Like someone said you sound like your insecure and trying to talk yourself into supporting your belief systems.

Lol at the idea of boxers being able to take bareknuckle body shots anywhere the level of Kyokushin unless they do additional training. Kyokushin are famous for that and train it all the time.

Also about hitting harder, many TMA guys can hit much harder than alot of boxers, especially without gloves
Not all boxers are 'punchers', what separates boxing and makes it better for standup overall is the live sparring and timing, not the power. Boxing punches, positioning and technique developed in sparring allow better defence compared to most TMAs which sets it apart, not necessarily the punching power.

Well if i was trying to make myself feel better, wouldn't that mean i would be mocking kyokushin? I have nothing against karate in fact a couple of years ago i wanted to train both muay thai and karate at the same time. Really from the video it looks like to me that kyokushinkai's have hands. I was just saying because boxers sole focus is on punching that they could take those punches because they have been hit more in boxing matches in the body. But i guess kyokushin is not like any other karate style and they do a little more than just karate.

 

[shincheckin]

So, Khan, are you claiming that boxers punch harder than pretty much any other striking style just because boxing is 1 dimensional and does only punching?

of course boxers are the best punchers. Can a krotty boy punch harder than a boxer? sure, but generally speaking, its obvious that boxers are going to be the superior punchers. Common sense there bud. Use it once in a while.

 

[ironkhan57]

of course boxers are the best punchers. Can a krotty boy punch harder than a boxer? sure, but generally speaking, its obvious that boxers are going to be the superior punchers. Common sense there bud. Use it once in a while.

I honestly think boxers have the best punches. I mean it's not impossible for a kyokushinkai to have more powerful punches. When i watched a documentary a couple of years ago, i actually saw them punching trees 100x.

And to @TheMaster. Really if your going to call me ignorant at least read all of my responses and not be the only guy in the stand up forum that tries to bring up wing chun in the world, i like wing chun it definitely helped out with my muay thai a little. I didn't really train it, someone whose step father has been teaching him it since he was 7 showed me it a little and i'm a visual learner.

Anyways i'm not downplaying kyokushin, ALOT of boxers hit as hard as a sledge hammer. Their are definitely karatekas who hit really hard, a lot of them cross train in boxing and get even more powerful punches.

 

[JohnPJones]

If your sole focus is on punching. Than doesn't that make boxers techniques more proficient?

theoretically, but as has been pointed out, punching with wraps and gloves on is different than bare knuckle and which style has more training and experience there?

 

[JohnPJones]

Now I’m just curious what you mean by regular karate.
I’m guessing the exaggerated games of tag that makes up most sport karate?

Can we all just agree to disregard that BS as many other Karateka hate it, and realize it’s 90% or more uselessness?

 

[bobthebuilder]

Say the dude goes straight from boxing to kyokushin - hands only, bare knuckled full contact sparring. Is his body conditioned for that type of fighting too by virtue of boxing, or does it require specific knuckle to bone conditioning first?

I was curious to try out but better ask here first

A kyokushin practitioner may feel less pain, but I doubt bone conditioning is relevant.

 

[ironkhan57]

theoretically, but as has been pointed out, punching with wraps and gloves on is different than bare knuckle and which style has more training and experience there?

Well there also is a bare knuckle boxer. I agree bare knuckle punching is different from boxing gloves, normally when people want to fight i hand them mma gloves that i always keep in my duffle bag. The mechanics from punching bare knuckle is not as different it's the way it lands thats different because from my experience when i hit the bag bare knuckle thats more solid than others i usually have to put way more focus on rotation on punching.

 

[JohnPJones]

Well there also is a bare knuckle boxer. I agree bare knuckle punching is different from boxing gloves, normally when people want to fight i hand them mma gloves that i always keep in my duffle bag. The mechanics from punching bare knuckle is not as different it's the way it lands thats different because from my experience when i hit the bag bare knuckle thats more solid than others i usually have to put way more focus on rotation on punching.

how many bare knuckle boxers are out there these days?

But for the record that’s moving the goal posts, from boxers to bare knuckle boxers

 

[FighterTwister]

Say the dude goes straight from boxing to kyokushin - hands only, bare knuckled full contact sparring. Is his body conditioned for that type of fighting too by virtue of boxing, or does it require specific knuckle to bone conditioning first?

I was curious to try out but better ask here first

My opinion would be first to ask any person undertaking some sort of Karate Tournament ..... is how serious are you in the art and applying correct conditioning training methods of any kind or method of conditioning the hands or body.

Hands do break!







Links:-

• https://www.kungfu4you.com/hand-conditioning/
• https://blackbeltwiki.com/traditional-karate-hand-conditioning-drills
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Palm

Just Google the subject!

Many boxers break parts of their hands and the area weakens, in martial arts they draw out a long continual conditioning method to harden and strengthen the hands as a life long practice.

In most Martial Arts toughening the body is vital to the many elements of the arts practices, techniques and function and by the time you reach a high rank you would have reached a high level of physical competency to pursue this to the end not the many McDojo's you see nowadays.

So my opinion NO a Boxer should not get into direct full contact Karate bouts unless proven you have strong hands and have conditioned them.

Boxing under some of the old methods have some good conditioning methods but not like Martial Arts its application is different.

In Martial Arts you would need at least 5 years of Push ups on wrists, fingers, and knuckles from Boxing where you have somewhat given time to develop stronger tendons and tissue around knuckles and hardening the bones.

Also good methods of healing practices so the wrist and hands don't wear down quickly and bring upon painful issues as you get old.

But you get all sorts of advice around here

 

[TheMaster]

No.. Take boxing for 3 months, then tell me if you didn't punch dramatically harder...

Boxing is about the sparring, the defence and timing not primarily power. I have no doubt boxers hit hard but there are other styles with massive power punching mechanics, also genetics plays a large part.
Look at Wilder, one of the hardest punchers in boxing history and very poor boxing punch technique but huge power.
Furthermore as per this thread, a boxer breaks his hands or rolls his wrists bareknuckle. Many TMA styles focus on bareknuckle conditioning.
Your opinion is simply that, an opinion but not based on any experience of styles outside boxing or any evidence.

I like how your the only person that got really triggered for no reason. lmao.

No, its called calling out empty talk.

Well if i was trying to make myself feel better, wouldn't that mean i would be mocking kyokushin? I have nothing against karate in fact a couple of years ago i wanted to train both muay thai and karate at the same time. Really from the video it looks like to me that kyokushinkai's have hands. I was just saying because boxers sole focus is on punching that they could take those punches because they have been hit more in boxing matches in the body. But i guess kyokushin is not like any other karate style and they do a little more than just karate.

Ok calm down, you were called out by a few people for talking about something you know nothing about. Just take note of that habit to not repeat, otherwise the rest of your posts were fine.
Kyokushin is probably the toughest conditioning martial art in the world.

My opinion would be first to ask any person undertaking some sort of Karate Tournament ..... is how serious are you in the art and applying correct conditioning training methods of any kind or method of conditioning the hands or body.

Hands do break!







Links:-

• https://www.kungfu4you.com/hand-conditioning/
• https://blackbeltwiki.com/traditional-karate-hand-conditioning-drills
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Palm

Just Google the subject!

Many boxers break parts of their hands and the area weakens, in martial arts they draw out a long continual conditioning method to harden and strengthen the hands as a life long practice.

In most Martial Arts toughening the body is vital to the many elements of the arts practices, techniques and function and by the time you reach a high rank you would have reached a high level of physical competency to pursue this to the end not the many McDojo's you see nowadays.

So my opinion NO a Boxer should not get into direct full contact Karate bouts unless proven you have strong hands and have conditioned them.

Boxing under some of the old methods have some good conditioning methods but not like Martial Arts its application is different.

In Martial Arts you would need at least 5 years of Push ups on wrists, fingers, and knuckles from Boxing where you have somewhat given time to develop stronger tendons and tissue around knuckles and hardening the bones.

Also good methods of healing practices so the wrist and hands don't wear down quickly and bring upon painful issues as you get old.

But you get all sorts of advice around here

Good post. But this is an mma forum so the views and experience of people is quite limited outside that arena.
However you do need sparring or some form of live training to be an effective fighter.

 

[FighterTwister]

Boxing is about the sparring, the defence and timing not primarily power. I have no doubt boxers hit hard but there are other styles with massive power punching mechanics, also genetics plays a large part.
Look at Wilder, one of the hardest punchers in boxing history and very poor boxing punch technique but huge power.
Furthermore as per this thread, a boxer breaks his hands or rolls his wrists bareknuckle. Many TMA styles focus on bareknuckle conditioning.
Your opinion is simply that, an opinion but not based on any experience of styles outside boxing or any evidence.




No, its called calling out empty talk.



Ok calm down, you were called out by a few people for talking about something you know nothing about. Just take note of that habit to not repeat, otherwise the rest of your posts were fine.
Kyokushin is probably the toughest conditioning martial art in the world.



Good post. But this is an mma forum so the views and experience of people is quite limited outside that arena.
However you do need sparring or some form of live training to be an effective fighter.

You are partially right on that, where MMA has ripped off TMA's and makes claim it is its own thing, by many here. LoL

Funny though we are discussing Karate LoL

However MMA a sport brings me to the same point addressed in my post that Karate and Boxing applications differ.

But here we go, its coming I can feel it, its getting closer, here it comes............................ Thread derailed

 

[spacetime]

My opinion would be first to ask any person undertaking some sort of Karate Tournament ..... is how serious are you in the art and applying correct conditioning training methods of any kind or method of conditioning the hands or body.

Hands do break!







Links:-

• https://www.kungfu4you.com/hand-conditioning/
• https://blackbeltwiki.com/traditional-karate-hand-conditioning-drills
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Palm

Just Google the subject!

Many boxers break parts of their hands and the area weakens, in martial arts they draw out a long continual conditioning method to harden and strengthen the hands as a life long practice.

In most Martial Arts toughening the body is vital to the many elements of the arts practices, techniques and function and by the time you reach a high rank you would have reached a high level of physical competency to pursue this to the end not the many McDojo's you see nowadays.

So my opinion NO a Boxer should not get into direct full contact Karate bouts unless proven you have strong hands and have conditioned them.

Boxing under some of the old methods have some good conditioning methods but not like Martial Arts its application is different.

In Martial Arts you would need at least 5 years of Push ups on wrists, fingers, and knuckles from Boxing where you have somewhat given time to develop stronger tendons and tissue around knuckles and hardening the bones.

Also good methods of healing practices so the wrist and hands don't wear down quickly and bring upon painful issues as you get old.

But you get all sorts of advice around here

My instructor had his knuckles conditioned since he was a kid and he still broke them

 

[spacetime]

Boxing is about the sparring, the defence and timing not primarily power. I have no doubt boxers hit hard but there are other styles with massive power punching mechanics, also genetics plays a large part.
Look at Wilder, one of the hardest punchers in boxing history and very poor boxing punch technique but huge power.
.

Boxing is all about power. Wilder throws proper boxing mechanics 95% of the time, alongside improvised stuff he throws in there. He wins fight with his boxing

 

[spacetime]

Bare knuckle champion vs a generic modern day boxer, gloves

Does it look like the same combat art? Does the bare knuckle boxer punch better than your average street thug?

 

[ironkhan57]

Boxing is about the sparring, the defence and timing not primarily power. I have no doubt boxers hit hard but there are other styles with massive power punching mechanics, also genetics plays a large part.
Look at Wilder, one of the hardest punchers in boxing history and very poor boxing punch technique but huge power.
Furthermore as per this thread, a boxer breaks his hands or rolls his wrists bareknuckle. Many TMA styles focus on bareknuckle conditioning.
Your opinion is simply that, an opinion but not based on any experience of styles outside boxing or any evidence.




No, its called calling out empty talk.



Ok calm down, you were called out by a few people for talking about something you know nothing about. Just take note of that habit to not repeat, otherwise the rest of your posts were fine.
Kyokushin is probably the toughest conditioning martial art in the world.



Good post. But this is an mma forum so the views and experience of people is quite limited outside that arena.
However you do need sparring or some form of live training to be an effective fighter.

I'm not mad. But ok i'll try to chill you were the only one who got triggered for no reason.

 

[Ilk]

give me one TMA or sport that spends more time on the heavy bag than boxers do and I will then argue if boxers do not punch hard. Just less than a month ago a pro Ukrainian boxer killed with 1 shot a security guard of the president of Ukraine in a street argument... I mean sure the guy is a heavy weight and a thug at the same time and a professional fighter. Not every boxer hits like that guy. These are the extremes. But even on average there are not any TMA and Sports people that spend that much time banging the heavy bag with full power, pracricing their punching technique and punching power all the time.

It is hard to brake hands. It is easier to brake them on the heavy bag to be honest but that is after hours of banging and small injuries on the hands through the years. I myself broke my wrist but it was after accumulating injuries from lifting.

Not sure why karate guys try to measure dicks with boxers. I mean you take two average guys put them on the same training regimen one training boxing and one karate for an equal time. The boxer guy should easily dismantle the karate guy even in a karate sparring bare hands using in fighting tactics. He will just get the better angles, the better positions and deliver more powerful shots with uppercuts and hooks, while the karate guy would just spam straights walking forward most of the time.

The only realistic chances would be the karate guy to use low kicks. But seing how they fight in competition is basically walk forward with straights add a flashy kicks, the boxer should just keep in fightiing and keep that pressure and distance to win.

 

[FighterTwister]

 

[Ilk]

Yay at 60 + years old man delivering the most dangerous punch


Want to see some speed and power combined?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95SBZ-hXI_w

 

[JohnPJones]

Doesn’t matter who you are, the GOAT has the pandemic punch and nothing else matters

 

[spacetime]

give me one TMA or sport that spends more time on the heavy bag than boxers do and I will then argue if boxers do not punch hard. Just less than a month ago a pro Ukrainian boxer killed with 1 shot a security guard of the president of Ukraine in a street argument... I mean sure the guy is a heavy weight and a thug at the same time and a professional fighter. Not every boxer hits like that guy. These are the extremes. But even on average there are not any TMA and Sports people that spend that much time banging the heavy bag with full power, pracricing their punching technique and punching power all the time.

It is hard to brake hands. It is easier to brake them on the heavy bag to be honest but that is after hours of banging and small injuries on the hands through the years. I myself broke my wrist but it was after accumulating injuries from lifting.

Not sure why karate guys try to measure dicks with boxers. I mean you take two average guys put them on the same training regimen one training boxing and one karate for an equal time. The boxer guy should easily dismantle the karate guy even in a karate sparring bare hands using in fighting tactics. He will just get the better angles, the better positions and deliver more powerful shots with uppercuts and hooks, while the karate guy would just spam straights walking forward most of the time.

The only realistic chances would be the karate guy to use low kicks. But seing how they fight in competition is basically walk forward with straights add a flashy kicks, the boxer should just keep in fightiing and keep that pressure and distance to win.

An elite boxer vs elite kicker is a bad match up for the boxer in a street fight. The boxer can't corner the kicker without a ring, and will just get kicked on the outside. It's like giving your opponent twice the reach. So it depends.