Cormier

Gonna walk out of this thread with a doctorate in Bro Science.
 
The natural causes for low ratios are either overtraining/bad lifestyle/age/some sort of sickness. Getting the ratios that Jon had is not normal and can't be explained due to overtraining or having a bad lifestyle (he's a professional athlete for christ sake), he could have a disease which causes his testosterone-levels to drop, but we have never heard of Jon having weird T/E-ratios before.

Then there are unnatural causes for low ratios, which to me are more probable. Low T/E-ratios could be the result of steroid-use, after a cycle the body's own testosterone-production is much lower than it usually is. Or he could have tried to increase his ephitestorone-levels.

But who knows, he could very well be clean, but when a top-athlete in such a demanding sport as mma, have weird T/E-ratios, it points to that something unallowed is being done.

What's way more troubling here is that you clearly can't undergo the kind of physical transformation that he does during his training camps with a low T .
There is an omerta at it's finest around Jones's results , but clearly if someone believes he can get from a 225ish skinny fat guy to a 225ish shredded juggernaut in weeks with 5ng of T per deciliter the, he needs to get his head checked or educate himself about sport/performance/hormones
 
It has been posted and Daniel Cormier is also 35 not 27 like Jones.

Without steroid abuse, your T levels shouldn't start dropping until you're in your 50's.
 
It has been posted and Daniel Cormier is also 35 not 27 like Jones.



7 years does not make hardly any difference at all in test levels in normal people. You really think a mere 7 years is going to alter someones test levels??
 
jones is a natural heavyweight. that should be around the 240-250lb weight range. the amount of cardio greg's got those guys doing plus the fact that john probably doesn't do things like the squat and deadlift's that would naturally boost testosterone levels. I'd bet that though Jon has grappler/Farmboy strength he's probably Very unimpressive in the weight room. because he wants to continue to fight at 205 I could eventually see an overeem situation where jon will end up messing himself up trying to stay at 205.
 
What's way more troubling here is that you clearly can't undergo the kind of physical transformation that he does during his training camps with a low T .
There is an omerta at it's finest around Jones's results , but clearly if someone believes he can get from a 225ish skinny fat guy to a 225ish shredded juggernaut in weeks with 5ng of T per deciliter the, he needs to get his head checked or educate himself about sport/performance/hormones

Spot on. I actually have low T but not as low as what Jones is displaying. I've never used drugs before, mine is just your run of the mill type. I can't imagine Jones completing a training camp with those low numbers, you get so exhausted after exercising that you feel like just quitting. It's a horrible feeling and so for Jones to go through that transformation is just mind boggling. There are times when I hit the weights and just want to quit, no idea on earth how Jones can do it. I've been approved for trt but decide not to take it due to all the side effects.
Did I go off topic? Oops.
 
What's way more troubling here is that you clearly can't undergo the kind of physical transformation that he does during his training camps with a low T .
There is an omerta at it's finest around Jones's results , but clearly if someone believes he can get from a 225ish skinny fat guy to a 225ish shredded juggernaut in weeks with 5ng of T per deciliter the, he needs to get his head checked or educate himself about sport/performance/hormones



If you honestly think that Jones' starts out at 225lbs, you are highly delusional. He probably starts out at 240lbs. easy.
 
Without steroid abuse, your T levels shouldn't start dropping until you're in your 50's.

I've never used steroids and my levels dropped at age 35 I am now 40.
I have always been on the thick solid and ***** side though which is kind of strange. I can prob out bench press most of you youngsters!
 
It has been posted and Daniel Cormier is also 35 not 27 like Jones.

Assuming adequate health, a 35 y/o should not have drastically lower testosterone than a 27 y/o. In fact, it isn't uncommon for a healthy 35 y/o to have HIGHER total test than he had when he was 27, and free test within 10% or so.
 
I think this may shows a difference in theory and practice. I doubt T ratios are as scientific as other biomarkers. It is a very rough average. Which is why clinicians don't really see them as abnormal.
 
Groundbreaking thread. It's a good thing you let us know. Maybe this thread will blow up and have thousands of...oh wait, that's already happened.
 
Spot on. I actually have low T but not as low as what Jones is displaying. I've never used drugs before, mine is just your run of the mill type. I can't imagine Jones completing a training camp with those low numbers, you get so exhausted after exercising that you feel like just quitting. It's a horrible feeling and so for Jones to go through that transformation is just mind boggling. There are times when I hit the weights and just want to quit, no idea on earth how Jones can do it. I've been approved for trt but decide not to take it due to all the side effects.
Did I go off topic? Oops.


My friend, you have been severely mislead on the supposed "side effects" maybe you should actually research the side effects of having low testosterone levels. Heart disease, and whole host of bad shit. Any side effects that you can or may get from testosterone therapy, can be very easily controlled. Not sure where you heard that crap. If you are only wishing to have a high normal level, that will not cause any side effects. I was doing 700-800 mg per week for months at a time, without any side effects. Testosterone is very safe. control the water retention, and you will be good.
 
I dont get how these guys have that low of ratios, does anyone know more about the transient changes in this ratio and if its normal to dip that low?


Remember, its ratio they test, not quantity.. so, the cheaters just take some epi... get the ratio where they want it, test passed.. maybe they are taking a bit too much and have overshot their mark
 
The natural causes for low ratios are either overtraining/bad lifestyle/age/some sort of sickness. Getting the ratios that Jon had is not normal and can't be explained due to overtraining or having a bad lifestyle (he's a professional athlete for christ sake), he could have a disease which causes his testosterone-levels to drop, but we have never heard of Jon having weird T/E-ratios before.

Source? Dan Catlin says anything from .1 to 4 is normal. Admittedly, "normal" is a vague word.
 
It's been posted constantly.

While .44 seems a bit low to me, there's still a significant difference between .44 and .27.
 
Assuming adequate health, a 35 y/o should not have drastically lower testosterone than a 27 y/o. In fact, it isn't uncommon for a healthy 35 y/o to have HIGHER total test than he had when he was 27, and free test within 10% or so.

Not drastically lower maybe, but you cant simplify shit like this as every person is different. From 30 onwards it does drop so its possible a 35 y/o could have a lot less than someone mid 20s.
 
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