Cormier Would Beat Jones At Heavyweight

[TheLuckiest]

Barnett has more wrestling skill than Jones? On what planet? Barnett is a catch wrestler, has a better sub game, but his "wrestling skill" is levels below Jones.

Also TS, do you have any evidence that Jones optimum weight is what he's fighting at now? You know for sure he isn't everything he is now but stronger and with more power at say, 235-240 lbs.? I don't know what he'd be like at that weight, and I have news for you: NEITHER DO YOU. He might be slower and less effective, he might be a flat out wrecking machine, he might be the same thing he is now. We don't know.

Considering he is one of the most dominant champs of all time, I'd say Jones is pretty comfortable where he is at, but yes, maybe he would be even better at HW. What we do know, however, is that Cormier works hard to hit that 205 mark and it clearly has an adverse effect on his game.

 

[Blackjack]

Considering he is one of the most dominant champs of all time, I'd say Jones is pretty comfortable where he is at, but yes, maybe he would be even better at HW. What we do know, however, is that Cormier works hard to hit that 205 mark and it clearly has an adverse effect on his game.

I found this in Wikipedia which supports your claim that cutting to 205 clearly has an adverse effect on Cormier's game.

" He competed at 96g kg, or 211.6 lbs. At the 2004 Olympics he took 4th place after losing to Khadzhimurat Gatsalov in the semi-finals.[9] Daniel was also a member of the 2008 Olympic wrestling team for the USA, where he was named team captain, but did not compete due to kidney failure, brought on by excessive weight cutting.[10]"

If cutting to 211.6 pounds resulted in kidney failure for Cormier, how could anyone possibly think cutting to 205 pounds is a good idea for Cormier? How can an athlete be at his best when he is cutting so much weight that it has caused his kidneys to fail in the past? Cormier entered MMA as a heavyweight for a very good reason - his health!

Unfortunately for Cormier, despite being undefeated at heavyweight, he made the mistake of allowing his relationship with Cain Velasquez to influence his business decision to leave the heavyweight division so that he wouldn't have to compete for the Heavyweight Title Belt held by Cain Velasquez.

Not wanting to engage in athletic competition with a friend who hardly ever competes anyway is a horrible reason upon which to base a business decision which necessitated that Cormier lose somewhere around 35 pounds.

As an experienced athlete who knows the limitations of how much weight he can safely cut, Cormier made the rational decision to fight in the heavyweight division. Tragically, he has since let his emotions overpower his ability to rely upon logic when making business decisions and his loss to Jones may just be the beginning of the price he will pay for allowing emotion rather than logic to guide his actions.

 

[Huligani]

Jones cuts more weight than Cormier does.

 

[method115]

Sure this is true if we blatantly ignore what Cormier said about the body shots sapping him

 

[HaterSlayer]

Your controversial at best. There isn't a man in The UFC right now who is making the kind of money that Brock Lesnar made in his best paying fights so historically being Heavyweight Champion has been the weight class where a man can potentially earn more money than in any of the other weight classes per fight.

The merit that a fighter gets paid on is how many people can he draw to the arena and to PPV to see him fight. Clearly being the rightful claimant of the UFC belt that signifies that you are simply the best fighter in the entire organization helps draw an audience that pays to see you fight is one of the merits upon which your drawing power is based. I've never said there aren't other factors which contribute to a fighter's drawing power but that is one of the contributing factors. So you're wrong and you're not only wrong but you're writing style brings to mind what I'd expect from a high school dropout.

If you want to do it on those merits then Brock is an exception. Traditionally the highest drawing weight class for the UFC was LHW. After that it's probably Welterweight. Historically in boxing heavyweight was the most lucrative, but it hasn't been that way in a long time there.

 

[sparkyjohannsen]

Theres no point of even saying this

 

[BGDDYKWL]

I can definitely buy this. It's obviously not a fact, but I've always been of the opinion that whoever would win the fight, minus weight class, is ultimately the tougher guy. We have no way of knowing if Cormier would win at HW, but if he did, then he's the tougher guy in my book.

 

[Ted Bundy]

Objection! Speculation.

 

[Blackjack]

If you want to do it on those merits then Brock is an exception. Traditionally the highest drawing weight class for the UFC was LHW. After that it's probably Welterweight. Historically in boxing heavyweight was the most lucrative, but it hasn't been that way in a long time there.

Traditionally the highest drawing weight class in PRIDE was Heavyweight and PRIDE paid more than UFC at the time. So most of the best heavyweights were lured away from The UFC to PRIDE. Guys who were big draws in The UFC such as Mark Coleman and Mark Kerr were signed to contracts with PRIDE. Other great heavyweights who were big draws also signed with PRIDE because it paid better than UFC and the list includes Mirko Cro Cop, Fedor, Big Nog, Josh Barnett and others. By the time PRIDE went out of business and The UFC signed most of these guys, they were past their primes, especially Coleman.

That didn't leave many of the world's top heavyweights and so The UFC focused on building up the next closest weight class - LHW with guys like Tito Ortiz, Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture who switched back and forth between HW and LHW numerous times. Those three guys were their biggest stars for quite a while and Couture was a 3 time HW champ and a 2 time LHW champ.

We've gotten away from the topic of how well Cormier would do against Jones if the fight were held at HW, but the list of fighters I made in this post brings to mind a fantasy match-up I would love to have seen if both men could be in their primes right now: Imagine Jones vs. Cro Cop! That would be a great fight!

 

[TJC]

Hmm, maybe.

 

[countswagula]

I've been saying for some time Cormier did his best work back when he was 250, before he started worrying about getting down to 205. At the same time, nothing about their fight lets you make the definitive statement Cormier would beat Jones.

 

[submerged88]

Yeah Cormier would be much stronger, agile, quicker and have more endurance if he went back to eating popeyes chicken and fattened up. We all know the fatter you get, the stronger you are so Cormier should be able to lift Jones over his head if he had more blubber on his frame

 

[billo2007**]

worst thread ive read all week by far

fucking lol

 

[91 seconds]

I've thought the same. This isnt excuses for Cormier. I believe Cormier at HW would have the stamina and strength to nullify a lot of what happened. JJ is king at LHW. If Cormier had to pick what weight he wanted t o fight at, obviously it was HW. If not he would have been at 205 like the other fighters who cut massive amounts of weight. And it was said way before Jones that Cain was one of the reasons for the drop, actually the reason. Cormier never went 5 rounds at 205 against a giant like JJ and the best fighter in the ufc, for sure th division. Jones owns 205 like no other fighter in that weight class. Last time Cormier was at 205 was around 17 or 18..think about that. Cormier is a HW who experimented against arguably the best fighter currently in the sport.

I give props to Cormier and still believe he's still one of the top 10 fighters in the entire promotion.

 

[Hauptstoss]

Will this never end? Just stop, TS.

 

[Uber KO]

This treasure needs to be stickied instead of being sent to The Wasteland.

 

[Sherm]

It would be a good fight, but the extra fat Cormier could put on would be less useful than the extra muscle that Jones could add if he actually started lifting weights between camps.

 

[91 seconds]

Cormier just doesnt put on 40 pounds of fat. You dont think he loses muscle cutting. Hes naturally big. He has in a way what fedor had, in that their was a lot of muscle underneath what appeared to be guys that looked a tad big. Cormier at HW is a different fighter.

 

[Fedor2000]

Well Jon could go up to HW and fight Big Daddy Cain and get that ass whooped or he could continue to fight smaller framed guys at 205.. It's up to him! :icon_lol:

 

[billo2007**]

Cormier just doesnt put on 40 pounds of fat. You dont think he loses muscle cutting. Hes naturally big. He has in a way what fedor had, in that their was a lot of muscle underneath what appeared to be guys that looked a tad big. Cormier at HW is a different fighter.

you need to take a long hard look at your life bro. stop posting in this thread pls for the love of god. how is this not in the wasteland?

on a more serious note can people stop putting serious posts in this thread?

that would have the desired effect too...