Core schedule- what do you think

"Fights are not powerlifting events, you need to be able to use your muscles again and again and again for several minutes without your power dropping"

You mean like the thousands of football, basktball, and track athletes Rippetoe has trained over his 30+ years in the game?
 
I know that by using Rippetoe's style of training I have increased my strength and power, but there was no carryover to endurance.

I brought Rippetoe into this because he was mentioned in this discussion, it wasnt meant as a bash but I dont think people should be taking everything Rippetoe says as gospel especially considering we are talking about combat endurance and not powerlifting.
 
Yes keep believing in the rehashed dogma of Mark Rippetoe, no offence to the guy but what does Mark Rippetoe know about the demands of fighting?

Fights are not powerlifting events, you need to be able to use your muscles again and again and again for several minutes without your power dropping. A 2 minute plank isnt even a long time but it builds up good endurance which is an important piece of the puzzle, like max strength and power are too.

Mate that is a total straw man argument. I cited Rip because he's 1. the last author I read to point that out and I can remember the specific publication as opposed to citing the all knowing "they" of gym knowledge lore and 2. does a great job explaining the physiological reasons for this.

This is definitely not new, and it's widely accepted. I could go digging through old t-nation articles to find specific quotes, but I had enough argumentative writing in college.

Finally as it says in the FAQ more or less: strong is strong, or as Dan John says all training is complimentary, however if you want to go the "fight specific" route, when was the last time you held a position for 2 minutes without any external resistance in a fight?
 
The bottom line is that this is the strenght and power forum, this will always be focused towards powerlifting style training. As a fighter you must naturally combine strength and conditioning and conditioning will always be more important than streghth training for a fighter. That dont make strength training useless, the only thing that is useless is to pit the two qualities against eachother.

If you had to choose naturally as a fighter you will choose Ross Enamit as your trainer instead of Ripetoe, that dont mean that you cant learn from him.

You could say it like this holding max planks shouldnt be the most regular core training you do, but if you cant hold a 5 minute strict plank then you have a weak point that risk being exposed in the ring.
Doing max pushups shouldnt be your main pushing strength training, but if you cant do 50 strict pushup your not conditioned enough.
 
however if you want to go the "fight specific" route, when was the last time you held a position for 2 minutes without any external resistance in a fight?

Retardedness. I have never sprinted 400 m in a fight. That dont make 400m sprints worthless for fight conditoning.

I have never pushed a guy straight over my head in a fight. Usually I dont benchpress them either. I do hower benefit from the pushing strength from both as a fighter.

You could go on and fucking on but lets not.
 
Longer plank = more endurance
More endurance = being able to maintain your power and volume of strikes for a longer amount of time.

When you do padwork and you start slowing down, that isnt just your legs slowing down its the whole chain which is responsible for kicking, the core is part of that.
 
Retardedness. I have never sprinted 400 m in a fight. That dont make 400m sprints worthless for fight conditoning.

I have never pushed a guy straight over my head in a fight. Usually I dont benchpress them either. I do hower benefit from the pushing strength from both as a fighter.

You could go on and fucking on but lets not.

That was my point, we need [facetious] brackets.
 
Who even stated that the OP was doing an MA? That said, I don't being able to hold a plank for 7 minutes has anymore carryover to, say, MMA, than holding a weighted plank for 30 seconds. However, if you can only hold a plank for 30 seconds, I wouldn't start adding weight.
 
Its a complex subject where we draw the line on endurance training and it dont have obvious answers, the way you should do it will always be depending on the individual and the event.

Where do you draw the line for how long you should run, how many pushups you should be able to do, hindu squats, pullusp, how many burpees or how many strikes with your sledge. It is all the same question more or less, where do you loose enough intensity, where do you draw the line.

In the end you are better of as a fighter to be able to do 100 strict pushups than not being able to do it. Same you are better equiped as a figther to be able to do a 5 minute plank than to not being able to do 2 minutes. Of course if you do 50 minute planks or 500 pushups that would tell me you are focusing on the wrong things.
These kind of things, endurance shit are definitively relevant gpp for a fighter, and just because you have a training that encompases these things dont mean they are your focus nescesarily.
 
I know that by using Rippetoe's style of training I have increased my strength and power, but there was no carryover to endurance.

I brought Rippetoe into this because he was mentioned in this discussion, it wasnt meant as a bash but I dont think people should be taking everything Rippetoe says as gospel especially considering we are talking about combat endurance and not powerlifting.

You are mistaking Rippetoe for a powerlifting coach and he is not. He trains football, basketball, etc. players, not powerlifters. He is a strength coach, not a PL coach.

I dont think anyone is arguing that you need conditioning. Obviously starting strength is not the end of your strength and conditioning routine. I think the argument here is waht is better for planks, longer holds or holds with more resistance? I think you could probably use both. Personally, i feel once you get plank holds up to a certain point, maybe a minute or two, adding weight is a good option. Some people feel otherwise and i see the relevance of both points. I dont even do planks, so I cant say which way is better. Maybe this calls for a plankoff?
 
I like the idea of holding planks for time. Mostly for the mental conditioning that goes into it.
 
I'm going to throw my opinion in with the mix, for whatever it's worth:

In my experience as a trainer (some fighters, some PLers, some football, etc. Most fattys.) I've found that works best for increasing PERFORMANCE has been to be able to hold a plank for a minimum of 2 minutes, and then begin making it more challenging.

Here's the thing though: I know maybe 4 or 5 people who know how to do and teach the plank properly. It's primary functions - to realign an anterior pelvic tilt and train ALL of the core muscles to work together to maintain that neutral spine/pelvis position (allowing the best transfer of force and lowest risk of injury while the body is under duress) - are completely lost the way almost everyone does planks.

If someone isn't squeezing their glutes and activating their rectus abdominus while holding the plank the entire time, they're simply training the body to default into a poor pelvic posture when under stress. This is hardly ideal.

The best way to learn this, of course, is to have someone providing external feedback, and even touching your hips and helping you tilt them into a totally neutral (if not slightly posterior) position. Do this until you can be sure that your glutes are staying on and your hips are staying tucked under.

I'd bet at least 50-60% of the people in here can't hold a plank and squeeze their glutes properly the first time they try. It's VERY humbling, and not something that I relish doing either!

The carryover into squats, deads, bench, ohp, and (lately) even bjj is tremendous. But not unless done properly.

And finally, research has proved what I'd stumbled onto: the 2 minute hold is crucial to build up to because until you can hold that, it's very unlikely that with added weight you'll be able to stay "tucked." The Washington State football team implemented planks a few years ago as part of a study. Changing nothing else about their strength or conditioning routine, they managed to have a majority of their athletes improve in at least one of the combine events that year.

The kicker, though, is that they used the 2 minute hold first. When an athlete could maintain that (properly), a trainer or teammate pushed down on their low back (lightly at first, it's easy to over do it) and tried to get the tilt to break neutral. They also addded SIDE resistance - an athlete would hold a proper plank and someone else would press into their sides/obliques and the athlete had to resist the movement.

I'm too goddamn wordy, but there you have it.
 
Thanks Ascendant! That is a great write up. I never knew how to do planks properly. I am going to try it out. Thanks again!
 
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