Constitutional Interpretation - Democrats vs Republicans

[T-Bone]

Abortion. A constitutional right. Republicans are trying to place limits on it. Democrats are fighting against limits.

Bear Arms. A constitutional right. Democrats trying to place limits on it. Republicans are fighting against limits.

I guess it's only a "right" if you agree with it.

-T

 

[Fawlty]

Abortion. A constitutional right. Republicans are trying to place limits on it. Democrats are fighting against limits.

Bear Arms. A constitutional right. Democrats trying to place limits on it. Republicans are fighting against limits.

I guess it's only a "right" if you agree with it.

-T

Politics here take the form of a competition to institute values. Yes, a right is what we agree a right to be, that's just the democratic process. If there's some objective governmental truth, we're a long way from settling on it. We make arguments to support our views of issues. It would be really strange if we just arbitrarily decided issues and then made the arguments to support them, or if we decided that the right way to do things was set in stone regardless of changing values. The Constitution is vague on purpose.

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Murder isn't a constitutional right, chief. Until life is proven beyond a reasonable doubt to begin at a certain moment during gestation, there is a reasonable possibility it begins at conception. If that's the case, abortion at any time during pregnancy is murder.

So, since we don't know for certain when life begins, what type of error would you rather make: a false negative or a false positive? I'd tend not to want to make the false negative where I end up murdering babies, but that's just me.

 

[dontsnitch]

Abortion debate or gun control. Which way do we go?

 

[JDragon]

Abortion debate or gun control. Which way do we go?

If the only way to conduct an abortion was to shoot the fetus with a legal firearm, which way would people on both sides go?

 

[GearSolidMetal]

If the only way to conduct an abortion was to shoot the fetus with a legal firearm, which way would people on both sides go?

Unless the person with the legal firearm had a reasonable belief of mortal danger and acted in self defense, by shooting an unborn child, it's murder.

Good luck selling that argument.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I still don't see how abortion is a Constitutional right whereas the 2nd Amendment is obvious.

 

[BruceLeeOnTRT]

I never understood that rift. I'm pro guns and pro choice. Let's all get along and enjoy the view from above the wall.

 

[Quipling]

Unless the person with the legal firearm had a reasonable belief of mortal danger and acted in self defense, by shooting an unborn child, it's murder.

Good luck selling that argument.

I have a reasonable fear that bearing the pregnancy to term is mortally dangerous. As evidence, I cite the millions of women who have died in childbirth. Such evidence, while not conclusively proving danger, elevates my fear to being "reasonable."

 

[Burning Hammer]

I have a reasonable fear that bearing the pregnancy to term is mortally dangerous. As evidence, I cite the millions of women who have died in childbirth. Such evidence, while not conclusively proving danger, elevates my fear to being "reasonable."

The overwhelming majority of women aren't at risk of losing their life during childbirth. Every child is at risk of losing their life in womb for an abortion.

Good argument.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I have a reasonable fear that bearing the pregnancy to term is mortally dangerous. As evidence, I cite the millions of women who have died in childbirth. Such evidence, while not conclusively proving danger, elevates my fear to being "reasonable."

Unless it rape was involved that's not much of an argument, is it? Same as starting a fight then pulling out a gun when you're losing doesn't qualify legally as self-defense.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I have a reasonable fear that bearing the pregnancy to term is mortally dangerous. As evidence, I cite the millions of women who have died in childbirth.

Thanks to the advancement of medical research, due to capitalism, the risks of fatal complications during labor have been greatly reduced as compared to centuries ago or current day third world countries.

And also thanks to capitalism we have the means to monitor women of high-risk pregnancies. If a diagnosis concludes the attempt to carry a child to term would result in the mother's death, an abortion would be a reasonable option.

But thankfully there's many options to prevent pregnancy, like condoms, lesbianism, monthly pills, dildos, anal penetration, abstenence, and swallowing.

Spoiler

In that last paragraph, I'm joking about half of what I listed. I leave it to you to decide which ones.

 

[sloppypie]

I still don't see how abortion is a Constitutional right whereas the 2nd Amendment is obvious.

If you really don't understand why, go read roe v. Wade. The Supreme Court explains in significant detail why they ruled the way they ruled.

 

[Fawlty]

I still don't see how abortion is a Constitutional right whereas the 2nd Amendment is obvious.

It's clearly not. Isn't it twice removed from the bill of rights? Covered by privacy which is an implied right in itself. Not to say it's wrong, but it's not the best comparison. It doesn't seem like the point of the thread though. It's about interpreting the constitution according to our political beliefs, which is a perfectly valid way of governing, and essential to democracy.

 

[Fawlty]

I have a reasonable fear that bearing the pregnancy to term is mortally dangerous. As evidence, I cite the millions of women who have died in childbirth. Such evidence, while not conclusively proving danger, elevates my fear to being "reasonable."

As long as the fetus can carry concealed. If only more fetuses had a gun...

 

[eworden78]

Unless it rape was involved that's not much of an argument, is it? Same as starting a fight then pulling out a gun when you're losing doesn't qualify legally as self-defense.

It actually can in some cases. If you start a fight and the fight escalates to a point in which you are fearful for your life, you have the right escalate force as a means of self-defense.
There's all sorts of ramifications and interpretations, but technically their are scenarios where you could pull out a gun in self defense, in a fight you started.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

If you really don't understand why, go read roe v. Wade. The Supreme Court explains in significant detail why they ruled the way they ruled.

Go ahead and summarize what makes abortion a right.

It actually can in some cases. If you start a fight and the fight escalates to a point in which you are fearful for your life, you have the right escalate force as a means of self-defense.
There's all sorts of ramifications and interpretations, but technically their are scenarios where you could pull out a gun in self defense, in a fight you started.

Ok, but I've never seen that and it certainly wouldn't fly in my state. Here you can't do anything to escalate a situation and still claim self-defense (except for protecting your home).

 

[ncordless]

The overwhelming majority of women aren't at risk of losing their life during childbirth. Every child is at risk of losing their life in womb for an abortion.

Good argument.

The overwhelming majority of people being robbed at gun point don't end up being killed, either. Does that make their fear of imminent loss of life unreasonable such that they cannot act in self-defense?

 

[mike sherry]

Abortion. A constitutional right. Republicans are trying to place limits on it. Democrats are fighting against limits.

Bear Arms. A constitutional right. Democrats trying to place limits on it. Republicans are fighting against limits.

I guess it's only a "right" if you agree with it.

-T

Where is abortion an enumerated right in the constitution? Color me skeptical on that claim

 

[Burning Hammer]

The overwhelming majority of people being robbed at gun point don't end up being killed, either. Does that make their fear of imminent loss of life unreasonable such that they cannot act in self-defense?

If you're afraid to die from giving birth you probably shouldn't be getting pregnant. I know, it's weird to hold yourself accountable.